Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

If you know of a way to help save our planet, even just a small part of it put it here. Also if you want to ask how to help, or even if you want to promote your environmental organisation. All goes here.
sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255185 sushil_yadav
Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:52 am

bill1953 wrote:If you look at this link you wil see most of the humans are in your neck of the woods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population


Blaming population for global/ environmental crisis is like blaming Taliban and Al Qaeda for Terrorism

Who created Taliban and Al Qaeda???????......It was America......and it was America that sustained them by giving Money and weapons to Taliban and Al Qaeda for years and years......and today America is a Saint and Taliban & Al Qaeda are terrorist organixations.


Overpopulation is a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255196 gregorach
Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:34 am

sushil_yadav wrote:Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.


If you really believe this, what are you doing using a computer to post stuff on the internet?
Cheers

Dunc

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255198 bill1953
Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:37 am

'Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.'

Are you really serious? Production of food, clothing and shelter are totally depending on the production of consumer goods. For instance. how are the food producers going to get to work?

You really cannot be serious about anything other than self publicity and contrary to popular beflief, not all publicity is good publicity :scratch:
Just because you see two eyes shining in the jungle at night, do not think that the worse thing that could happen is that you are about to be attacked by a tiger. It could be two one-eyed tigers.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255200 sushil_yadav
Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 am

gregorach wrote:
sushil_yadav wrote:Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.


If you really believe this, what are you doing using a computer to post stuff on the internet?



Did I ever claim that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment?????

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.

Computers are being used because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????


Environment does'nt get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It does'nt get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this does'nt save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a non-industrial society environment gets saved automatically....one does not have to make efforts to save environment.

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire society is impossible.

There is no industrial society which limits its activity to just food, clothing, shelter and does not produce consumer goods.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth we will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive/ hardly caused any destruction......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately........Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255205 MKG
Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:09 am

And pray tell, Sushil - are you going to be the one who decides, when we immediately stop this industrial activity, which of the new starving millions must die immediately and which are to be kept going a little longer? Are you going to select survival along eugenic lines? Religious lines? Nationalistic lines?

Or are you simply going to allow natural wastage, shrug your shoulders and claim that you had no hand in it?

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255213 gregorach
Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:27 am

sushil_yadav wrote:Did I ever claim that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment?????

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.


Ah, so no "be[ing] the change you want to see in the world" for you then? Just bombastic assertions that somebody else must do something... Let me know how that works out for you.
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Dunc

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255221 bill1953
Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:32 pm

No offence meant Sushil, but it might be helpful to discuss your plans, visions and ideas with a doctor at some stage, sooner the better :icon_smile:
Just because you see two eyes shining in the jungle at night, do not think that the worse thing that could happen is that you are about to be attacked by a tiger. It could be two one-eyed tigers.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255245 flower_hercules
Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:37 pm

bill1953 wrote:
It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


You are absolutely right sushil, The world needs such a dramatic change to save us from ourselves, but it just isn't going to happen because of the above answers people have given.

It's too late to simply down tools and head for the woods (if only! what a lovely ideal (for me anyway))

Rather than deciding that we shouldn't have anything other than food, clothing, shelter, deciding that we could do without more than one computer, more than one T.V. (or any computer or TV) etc might be a start. I say this and it sounds banal, but unfortunately even getting some people in the west to concede this much is difficult.

It seems from looking at stuff on this board that everyone here makes a lot of effort to be less dependent on the systems and 'stuff' that makes us all passive drones to industry. If everyone was an isher, the world might be saved. You are preaching to the converted.

Your passion is great! but the world is in too much of a muddle, humans too selfish, and most humans very dependent on the industries we made for such simple answers.

sushil_yadav wrote: The earth is sick.....ecosystems are dying......Animals, trees, Air, water and Land are dying.....Rivers, Oceans and Forests are dying.

We are alive because of Nature......We owe our very existence to Nature.

Should we not try to save Nature???????


I used to be like this! growing up I felt like this and although I don't say it any more, I still feel it. There is something about that very young me then that was absolutely right; no compromises! But the world isn't like this, nor can we make it be like this. It is a tough reality that we are killing our ecosystems, and it is not good enough or acceptable that we are doing this. But it is happening.

The way I look at it, I can't change the world, but I can change this bit of the world (Me) and maybe extend what little help I'm capable of, and that just has to be good enough (given I'm not superhero material). It won't save the world, but I'll go down fighting :salute:

You can only start with yourself, sushil, and hope that others around you cotton on and join in (maybe you could do campaigns, these make a difference and at least keep the environment on the world's agenda). Anything else, like getting angry with people and creating manifestos will just alienate people and leave you feeling raw.

This isn't the kind of response you are looking for, sushil, but that is because the response you want is a radical and idealistic one like yours. The world is less radical and idealistic than either of us would want, but its the one we are stuck with. There is no need for you to loose your passion or become numb about this issue, but you will have to be able to look at it from other people's point of view and meet them on terms they feel they can respond to and are cabable of realistically achieving in their lives (otherwise they will just think you are crazy and will not listen at all, which is worse).

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255262 trinder
Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:37 am

Well said Flower Hercules. You certainly speak for me in your well thought out and structured response.
I too once had a lot of fervour but have become old and just live my life in quiet determination. Or is that desperation?
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255264 bill1953
Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:45 am

You're not old :icon_smile:
Just because you see two eyes shining in the jungle at night, do not think that the worse thing that could happen is that you are about to be attacked by a tiger. It could be two one-eyed tigers.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255267 the.fee.fairy
Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:41 am

Sushil can I suggest that you join in with the rest of the forum rather than repeating your 'article' ad nauseum?

People have made very good arguments and you seem to be replying with meaningless sentences.

Please join in elsewhere and learn some things.

If you were hoping to sell your 'article' posting it repeatedly on a thread in this forum is not the way to do it. Find a good freelance website and try there instead. However, before you do, I would suggest that you learn more and take on board the questions and criticisms you've received here.

Please...Join in with the rest of the website and you'll realise you are preaching to the converted and don't need to repeat it again.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255277 bill1953
Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:53 am

the.fee.fairy wrote:Sushil can I suggest that you join in with the rest of the forum rather than repeating your 'article' ad nauseum?

People have made very good arguments and you seem to be replying with meaningless sentences.

Please join in elsewhere and learn some things.

If you were hoping to sell your 'article' posting it repeatedly on a thread in this forum is not the way to do it. Find a good freelance website and try there instead. However, before you do, I would suggest that you learn more and take on board the questions and criticisms you've received here.

Please...Join in with the rest of the website and you'll realise you are preaching to the converted and don't need to repeat it again.


Well said :grouphug:
Just because you see two eyes shining in the jungle at night, do not think that the worse thing that could happen is that you are about to be attacked by a tiger. It could be two one-eyed tigers.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255284 sushil_yadav
Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:33 am

flower_hercules wrote:
You are absolutely right sushil, The world needs such a dramatic change to save us from ourselves, but it just isn't going to happen because of the above answers people have given.

It's too late to simply down tools and head for the woods (if only! what a lovely ideal (for me anyway))

Rather than deciding that we shouldn't have anything other than food, clothing, shelter, deciding that we could do without more than one computer, more than one T.V. (or any computer or TV) etc might be a start. I say this and it sounds banal, but unfortunately even getting some people in the west to concede this much is difficult.

Your passion is great! but the world is in too much of a muddle, humans too selfish, and most humans very dependent on the industries we made for such simple answers.

sushil_yadav wrote: The earth is sick.....ecosystems are dying......Animals, trees, Air, water and Land are dying.....Rivers, Oceans and Forests are dying.

We are alive because of Nature......We owe our very existence to Nature.

Should we not try to save Nature???????


I used to be like this! growing up I felt like this and although I don't say it any more, I still feel it. There is something about that very young me then that was absolutely right; no compromises! But the world isn't like this, nor can we make it be like this. It is a tough reality that we are killing our ecosystems, and it is not good enough or acceptable that we are doing this. But it is happening.

The way I look at it, I can't change the world, but I can change this bit of the world (Me) and maybe extend what little help I'm capable of, and that just has to be good enough (given I'm not superhero material). It won't save the world, but I'll go down fighting :salute:


Dear flower hercules,

Thank you very much for your post and for your detailed analysis of the issues. I can understand that you are also deeply concerned about environmental destruction. You are right....."the world is in too much of a muddle".The scale and magnitude of environmental destruction is mind boggling......The rate of destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.

Asking “Industrial Society” to save Environment is like asking Petrol to extinguish a Fire.


I like your words :
flower_hercules wrote: It won't save the world, but I'll go down fighting.



sushil_yadav
Last edited by sushil_yadav on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255286 sushil_yadav
Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:58 am

trinder wrote:Well said Flower Hercules. You certainly speak for me in your well thought out and structured response.
I too once had a lot of fervour but have become old and just live my life in quiet determination. Or is that desperation?


Dear trinder,

Thanks for your post.

I am happy to know about the fervour you had in the past.

Your fervour might have turned to "quiet determination" or even desperation now.......but you don't need to feel bad about it.....you were deeply anguished by what you saw and you tried your best to bring about a change in society.

sushil_yadav

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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post: #255290 MKG
Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:07 am

the.fee.fairy wrote:Sushil can I suggest that you join in with the rest of the forum rather than repeating your 'article' ad nauseum?

People have made very good arguments and you seem to be replying with meaningless sentences.

Please join in elsewhere and learn some things.

If you were hoping to sell your 'article' posting it repeatedly on a thread in this forum is not the way to do it. Find a good freelance website and try there instead. However, before you do, I would suggest that you learn more and take on board the questions and criticisms you've received here.

Please...Join in with the rest of the website and you'll realise you are preaching to the converted and don't need to repeat it again.


Unfortunately, Fee, that is not how the Sushils of the world operate. Have a look around - you'll find Sushil doing exactly the same thing on four other sites of which I know - and it's the same topic, the same article, the same words, the same technique of thanking profusely anyone who sounds at all supportive but ignoring the issue or expounding cries of protest (and more propaganda) when anyone suggests that it's tosh. This, you see, is not someone discussing a philosophy - it is blatant, though simplistic, lecturing of the worst kind.

It would, of course, be completely coincidental if it was found that Sushil belonged to that group of angry young men from India (whose notoriety is rising on a lot of fora at this moment) who are disillusioned with the fact that no-one in India is listening any longer to their particular brand of militant communism (at least, what they perceive as communism).

Mike
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