F1 hybrids - a bit of a con ?

[Odsox]

In my limited knowledge of genetics, I thought F1 hybrids were carefully hand pollinated to achieve a new variety with seed that produced exactly the same offspring, hence the high price of seed.
I was gratified to see that Mr Wiki thinks the same too ... quote "F1 hybrid. The offspring of distinctly different parental types produce a new, uniform variety with specific characteristics" with the emphasis here on UNIFORM.
So picture this, I bought some F1 hybrid butternut squash seed (Harrier) and grew 4 plants. I could see that there were two obviously different sets of plants as they were growing but now that I have harvested them it's even more obvious.

See for yourself, the ones on the left were the shape I was expecting (I've grown this variety before) but the ones on the right came from the same expensive seed packet as the left ones. Two plants produced regular shaped ones and the other two produced serpentine oddities.
What happened should have been impossible if they were truly F1 hybrid seeds, but the proof is there, which to my mind can only mean they were not in fact F1 hybrids at all, despite paying an arm and a leg for the seed.
So is it all a bit of a con ?

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[battybird]

Certainly dont look "uniform" ..the seed supplier should be able to explain! I dont suppose many people actually contact them when this sort of thing happens! It is a bit late when they are harvested, so they get away with letting "rogue" seeds get packaged..if thats what happened! Does seem a bit of a con! Wonder whether they taste the same??

[old tree man]

I have also found this in the past but nothing is really geneticly the same unless its a perfect twin or a clone so really it is a con , a good way to get more money out of us

[oldjerry]

This isn't an arguement against F1 hybrids,but a citicism of this seed company's quality control in the packing dept.Contact them ,show them the pics. and demand a refund,with luck,you'll also get a load of freebie seed for next year.

[Millymollymandy]

Gawd all that peeling the ones on the right look like they've been crossed with some kind of gourd!

Is that potimarrons I see above?

[Odsox]

Is that potimarrons I see above?

Yep, sure is.

Guess which butternuts will be given away ...

This isn't an arguement against F1 hybrids,but a citicism of this seed company's quality control in the packing dept.Contact them ,show them the pics. and demand a refund,with luck,you'll also get a load of freebie seed for next year.

Not sure it's the seed company's fault but the seed producer, as I think all these F1 hybrids are "owned" by individual horticultural concerns and the seed is then distributed (sold) to the seed suppliers with the glossy catalogues.
But, yes ... I have sent the seed company an email with the photo, I will relay what they say ... when and if they give me an explanation.

[Green Aura]

Gawd all that peeling

Nigella says you don't need to peel butternut squashes - and she should know - she is a goddess after all, aren't they omniscient?

[grahamhobbs]

Odsox, seems this was not an isolated incidence, I think this is exactly what has happened to my Harriers. I say think because I planted two types of butternut (Harrier and Cobnut), but fairly sure I didn't mix them up and anyway neither variety should look like the elongated gourd type.
My Harrier seeds came from Thompson & Morgan, but fortunately I don't think I had to buy them, I got them given to me.

[Millymollymandy]

Hmmmmm don't fancy pumpkin pie or soup with pumpkin skin in quite honestly. Anyway some of my later ones have got speckedly bits on the skins so they are definitely being peeled!

[Millymollymandy]

I've looked up what variety I grew - Hawk F1 - only two plants but all the early ones that formed strangely did so before any of the long shoots formed so they were all small and based right round where I needed to water; then all the later ones that formed a lot later on the long shoots were twice the size! but I've never seen such prolific producers and have probably got about 18 off two plants. I don't even like butternuts.

[Big Al]

I wanted to start collecting my own seed for posterity so I ventured away from the F1 seeds this year. I went to the real seed catalogue and bout about £9 ish from memory and got over 20 odd different seeds. This was nothing to do with gift sets or pre selected seeds etc just that they were really cheap. I only had one disapointment and that was the bi colour sweetcorn but then having said that i didn't follow their instructions, planted them outside too early and never looked after them or fed them.......

The rest have been amazing including the 5 different lettuces we grew and NOT AN ICEBERG IN SITE !!!

I'll not be going back to F1 seeds anymore.

[grahamhobbs]

My experience with F1's is limited, I tend to avoid them, but where I have sown them the results have been mixed. The Harrier butternut is obviously an odd one. I'm growing two types of Celeriac this year, Monarch F1 and Giant Prague, the Monarch seems to be that bit bigger although it is too early to see the end result. Tomato Floridy F1 seems to be a waste of time, it is not exceptional in any way (reputedly the best tasting small tomato - but not in our house) and is of weak and leggy growth. Usually I grow F1 Sweetcorns, because that is about all you can buy, but have bought Golden Bantam (non-F1) to sow next year. The only difference is that the non-F1 will probably take a bit longer to mature, but hopefully not so long that it becomes impractical for growing in England.
For non-commercial growers, I can see no real advantage in growing F1's, the difference if any is generally insignificant and usually do not outweigh the advantages of non-F1's of cheaper cost, more variable maturing and being able to save and select your own seed. And beans especially are quite promiscuous so it is great fun creating and discovering your own new varieties - I'm on my way towards creating my own purple climbing french bean.

[Odsox]

For non-commercial growers, I can see no real advantage in growing F1's

I tend to choose F1 hybrids when I only plan to grow a small quantity, for instance Brussels sprouts. I used to grow Bedford Fillbasket but I normally only grow 6 plants and if half of them have loose sprouts/forked stems/stunted growth then I've wasted a season. I much prefer the reassurance that my 6 sprout plants will all produce sprouts ... assuming I keep picking the caterpillars off.
I chose Harrier squash purely because it's the only variety I've tried that is well behaved and doesn't run all over the place smothering other plants.

I went to the real seed catalogue and bout about £9 ish from memory and got over 20 odd different seeds

I used to use these people as well, unfortunately they upped their postage to £7.50 (compared to 95p for Dobies) ... your £9 worth of seeds would have cost me £16.50

[grahamhobbs]

Never really had a problem with Brussel Sprouts - have grown variety Noisette for a long time now, always done well and has lovely taste. Odsox, what F1 varieties would you recommend, do they stand for a long time, we like brussels from November through to March.

[Odsox]

I grow Maximus F1 Graham and they produce continuously from August until they bolt when the weather turns warmer about March.
I also grow Falstaff for red sprouts, but being non-F1 are noticeably a bit hit and miss.