Outlaw births

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Ellendra
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #116261 Ellendra
Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:54 pm

Midwives are prepared for most emergencies including chests full of fluid. They have a full resuss kit and drains with them for these and many other emergencies.



Must be a US/UK thing, the midwife my ex-sis-in-law hired wasn't prepared for much of anything.

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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #116266 lsm1066
Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:20 pm

Almost certainly. Midwifery is a relatively new concept in the US and as far as I'm aware, home birth is still illegal in a number of states. In Canada, midwifery was only legalised relatively recently.

In terms of the stats, booked home births which become planned hospital births (for whatever reason) are never counted in the home birth stats, nor should they be. Certainly women who's medical history requires them to be in hospital should be there, not at home. On the other hand there are a lot of women who change their mind because they're brow-beaten into it. I doula'd for a friend of mine and she had to fight tooth and nail to get her guaranteed home birth, in the end threatening them with an unassisted birth. The supervisor of midwives came to her house to tell her why she couldn't have what she wanted (having had a completely unnecessary hospital transfer with her 3rd baby because she didn't fit the protocols and she had a midwife who was relatively new to community), only to find Beverley Beech (AIMS) sitting on her sofa drinking tea. She got her home birth and it was a great one. Interestingly though, with in-labour transfers to hospital for "emergencies", most are not given any form of intervention in the first hour in hospital (including monitoring). In which case, just how much of an emergency is it?

As for the midwife not arriving in time with a 20 minute 2nd stage, you call them before you get to second stage. In fact you call them when you feel you're in established labour.

And finally, speaking of post-partum infection, I got one after ds2 was born, at home. I would imagine it had something to do with his being born at 1am and my being in Sainsburys at midday. The point is, a week on antibiotics had it fixed. That wasn't an option even 50 years ago, let alone 500. And thinking about royal home births, the present queen was born at home by caesarean! Hows that for the mother's right to choose? :mrgreen:

Lynne
ps. That's me done on this subject. I could go on until I'm blue in the face. The trouble is, we pay too much attention to our GPs when we're thinking about birth. Wonderful though they are, GPs are Jacks of all trades. Midwives are the ultimate experts on normal birth. And if your midwife thinks home birth would be ok for you, she's almost certainly going to be right.

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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #116595 Clara
Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:22 pm

Hello all...my first post in a while, cos my laptop is broke, but this is very interesting so I´ll pipe in, not least because I´M PREGNANT! :cheers:

Here in Spain whilst childbrith is on the whole very very medical, much more so than the UK, my local hospital has a 42% CS rate and when you do have a CS you are not allowed anyone in the OR with you or to hold your baby (in fact it is common practice to take a baby away from ALL mothers, for at least 12 hours).

However constitutionally, it is the right of any mother to have who she wishes attend the birth....which allows for non-medical midwives to operate in the gap between medical birth and unassisted birth (UC), allowing the woman to use HER choice and judgement, and ultimately take responsibility for what happens. I personally know a few UCers who chose to do so after having multiple naturally non-medical midwife assisted births (and why not, by that time you´re gonna know the drill well enough). I had non-medical midwives attend me at home, my baby was breech (which we knew) and after 48 hours of labour (inc 12 hrs pushing) we made a decision to go to hospital (2 hours drive away) where I was given a routine CS (i.e. non-emergency). My experience, is that whilst I didn´t the HB I tried so hard for, it did me and my babe no harm to try (and actually made dealing with the psychological after effects of a CS much easier - I have fewer "what-ifs?" to deal with). My time spent with my midwives (whom I saw weekly from the second trimester) was peaceful and calm, and we and they still consdier our babe to be one of "theirs", I wouldn´t be able pick out the OB who actually delivered LO in an uncrowded room (though the b!tch who shaved my pubes will get mown down if I ever see her crossing the street LOL!).

The point of all this is that contrary to what a lot of people think (and have expressed to me), a failed HB is not necessarily an emergency. I would argue that attempted HB is less likely to end as an emergency, if your midwives know you well (as they should) then they will know if it is time to quit, they will know if you are not "quite right".

As for me this time, I don´t know, I´ve grieved for the possibility of having a baby at home, though that doesn´t necessarily mean I will have it in hospital, I´d rather not.
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #116621 eccentric_emma
Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:48 pm

Congrats on the pregnancy Clara!! I was wondering where you had been recently.
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117213 mrsflibble
Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:36 pm

I saw my NHS midwife three times during the whole pregnancy :( how's that for knowing your midwife?! Clara your experience of "failed" home birth was not, in fact, a failure. you gave it your all and I muchly respect that.
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117219 Ratty
Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:53 pm

Congrats Clara!

I don't feel in any position to comment here. I have had 2 C-sections and I know my most recent one was unnecessary but there was too much pressure on me to argue my point. I do agree fully that GPs are jack of all trades though.
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117232 Annpan
Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:48 pm

Congrats Clara :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: - I saw you mentioned morning sickness in another post, and I was wondering.

I never saw the same midwife twice in my whole pregnancy, I had between 8 and 12 midwives see me in while I was in Labour (and 2 male doctors, despite the fact that I had it on my notes that I didn't want a male doctor in the same room, let alone examining me) I was in hospital and saw at least 10 more midwifes and then I saw a different midwife every day from getting home, for 14 days. So I am guessing around 30 - 40 midwifes. I'd go private 'next time' if I knew for a fact I would have some continuity of care.

BTW 'next time' isn't on the cards for any time in the next few years... if ever...
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117313 red
Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:51 am

congrats Clara :cheers:

I had a good experience re midwives through must of my pregnancy seeing the same 2 NHS midwives all the way through, and they led the classes too.

I went into hospital a week before my son was born as I had pre-eclampsia. and then I did meet the whole team! - and it was a lot less personal. Had I had a healthy pregnancy, I would probably only have met one at the hospital.

Have ruled out having more kids, but if I had I would probably have had a home birth, given that my first labour was 2 hours total, was told 'next time' would be quicker and as I live in a rural location....

I totally understand why people would opt for a home birth - although ther are some clear advantages to hospital birth - like someone else having to clear things up.. SCBU etc.

I'm just wary of looking positively at the stats if you take out the HBs that changed to hospital births... you do have to look at it all.

I hated being in hospital afterwards though. Both of us were ill, and in separate parts of the hospital. I had extremely high BP and my kidneys had packed up, yet had to tromp miles to see him. He was being tube fed my milk and they were reluctant to let him out of SCBU until feeding had been established.. but with a drip and tube fed he was in no mood to feed! -

the final straw came when the nurse failed to wake me at 2am for attempted feed, as she had promised, as 'she was busy' and so she tube fed him instead. I got a tad stroppy then... DR in charge of *my* health declared my BP would not take it and all agreed we would be better off at home

once home back to my lovely community midwives, bf established despite the initial difficulties and tube feeding and my bp normalised....
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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117336 lsm1066
Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:18 am

red wrote:I totally understand why people would opt for a home birth - although ther are some clear advantages to hospital birth - like someone else having to clear things up..


When ds2 was born at home, the midwives (I had 2 throughout) put everything in the washing machine and did the washing up. I think the place was actually tidier when they left than it was when they arrived. The biscuit tin certainly was. Spotless in fact! :lol:

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Re: Outlaw births

Post: #117804 Clara
Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:46 pm

Thanks everyone for the congrats, and sorry for the tardy reply...I'm still without a computer of my own!
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