Moral Maze: Food Crisis

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ina
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Moral Maze: Food Crisis

Post: #92057 ina
Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:19 pm

Did anybody listen to the Moral Maze last night on Radio 4? What a load of numpties they'd dug up for the panel... :roll:

Basically, their argument was that it could not be morally expected of them to change their consumer behaviour as it would make them unhappy (if, say, they could not take all the weekend flights to Prague they'd like, or go to the theatre whenever they wanted), and it would not help "those poor miserable peasants in the developing world" either. Rather, those poor miserable etc peasants should ALL become industrial capitalist farmers, because then they could afford to go to the theatre and generally have a lifestyle like ours, too, which would make them happy. And thanks to GM and other modern technology they would probably all be able to become huge industrial farmers, too.

I think I missed something... Like for example where all the land for those industrial farmers would suddenly appear from? Or where the thousands of currently perfectly happy because landowning, selfsufficient peasants go to when they've been driven off their land by those new industrial farmers who found that there wasn't an unlimited supply of land? And nobody even questioned their way of reasoning!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/religion/moralmaze.shtml
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Post: #92074 snapdragon
Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:28 pm

turned on especially to listen but it just made me want to smack some of them grrrrrrrrrrr :cussing:

problem with that programme is there is no real moral 'chairman' to tell them to shut up and get real or get their prada(?) stilettos wedged somewhere very uncomfortable grrrrrrrr (again)
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Post: #92085 MKG
Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:41 pm

I agree with your sentiments. On the other hand, has anyone ever done the calculations for organic self-sufficiency? Is there enough usable land in the world for everyone to go green? I'm not playing Devil's Advocate, by the way - I really do want to know if anyone has ever fone the counting.

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Post: #92112 hamster
Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:44 am

Bah. I bet we'd be able to produce more food through a network of well-managed, small-scale small farms, smallholdings, community gardens and backyard gardening/allotmenteering than we could through destroying all the rainforests to plant soya or corn monocultures.

And it would taste better.

Anyway, we won't have a choice once we've run out of oil.

Bah.

http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/Small-Farm-Benefits-Rosset.htm

Edited to add:

If we are concerned about food production, small farms are more productive. If our concern is efficiency, they are more efficient. If our concern is poverty, land reform to create a small-farm economy offers a clear solution. If the loss of biodiversity or the sustainability of agriculture concerns us, small farms offer a crucial part of the solution.
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Post: #92116 ina
Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:09 am

Hamster, you are right with your quote. I'm also just reading a very good book on the subject just now "So shall we reap" (Colin Tudge, I think - I'll review it when I'm finished). It's been shown in many cases that organic actually achieves higher yields under a lot of conditions - not, admittedly, compared to our European style factory farming in a temperate climate. It always employs more people, though - so solves one other problem! Lots of people have done the calculations, and yes, it is achievable - if we are prepared to change our lifestyle to a certain extent, which those panel members simply weren't.

And they kept going on how "our" lifestyle is so grim and dreary and awful - we are denying us all the fun in life... Ha! What do they know? Do I think it's fun being stuck at the airport waiting for yet another cheap flight? No, I don't! Actually, that gets me off on another rant :wink: : all these complaints about the "teething problems" at terminal 5: is flying essential to life and wellbeing? No, it isn't! But they are going on about it as if the country had suddenly run out of food or something - chaos! - catastrophe! The end of the world is nigh - we cannot fly today, we have to wait until tomorrow, and then our luggage might not arrive at the same time!

Rant over. :mrgreen:

Note to self: must get a life... :roll:
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Post: #96039 Bluemoon
Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:53 pm

I missed this......it's probably just as well, I've had a bit of a run in recently with a group of people just like this. The response wasn't simply apathy, it was rabid opposition. To say I found the whole thing depressing is probably more than a bit of an understatement. I'm not surprised that no-one challenged the panel on this particular programme, but it would have been pointless anyway, this type of person simply doesn't want to listen. It seemed to me that the people I was attempting to talk to were terrified that if they were to give up their manic consumerism it would become glaringly obvious just how superficial their lives truly were. As I said, I initially found it depressing, but now I just feel terribly sorry for them.

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Post: #96041 Martin
Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:03 pm

Melanie Philips............nuff said - entirely loathsome, and unbelievably stupid! :geek:
I frequent another board that is "home" to a load of "renewables" bods - the consensus is that we CAN be self-sufficient in power, but there will have to be some very hefty cuts in consumption, and the espousal of very different lifestyles :cooldude:
I'm very cheery about that - I've always though flying to be a particularly awful way of getting anywhere, and have never been comfortable with the chuckaway society - I envisage a slower, gentler, far more "laid back" way of life - no commuting, grow your own, make your own power........sort of Big Green Gathering 52 weeks a year - I can live with that! :dave:
As to high techery having the answers (whether it be atom power or GM - on yer bike - the only people who benefit are those in the industry)....... :mrgreen:
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ina
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Post: #96058 ina
Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:06 pm

Martin wrote:I frequent another board that is "home" to a load of "renewables" bods - the consensus is that we CAN be self-sufficient in power, but there will have to be some very hefty cuts in consumption, and the espousal of very different lifestyles :cooldude:


George Monbiot shows how to do it in "Heat", too. The only thing that really can't be replaced or achieved by alternative methods is the flying. I'm happy not doing that. Let's get back to how it was a few hundred years ago: you didn't go on foreign holidays several times a year - you did it once in your lifetime, and then spent half a year getting there and back, by sail power...
Ina

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Post: #96063 Martin
Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:14 pm

Well, I flew once - in the mid 1970's, and decided it was without doubt the most singularly appalling way of getting anywhere, and decided that I wouldn't do it again - and I haven't! :wink:
I honestly do not think of myself as in any way losing out by not flying - I've been all over the continent, by car, ferry and train (and to the US of A by boat)- seen loads of the countryside, met the natives, and got a "sense of scale" in my travels... :dave:
I'm looking forward to fleets of fast sailing schooners for real eco-holidays......... :cheers:
http://solarwind.org.uk - a small company in Sussex sourcing, supplying, and fitting alternative energy products.

Amateurs encouraged - very keen prices and friendly helpful service!

ina
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Post: #96073 ina
Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:50 pm

Another good article on the subject:

GLOBAL FOOD CRISIS
The Fury of the Poor

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 98,00.html


Reading that makes me think we should have rationing again soon. :?
Ina

I'm a size 10, really; I wear a 20 for comfort. (Gina Yashere)


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