Good heavens, horse pjs!

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marshlander
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Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267374 marshlander
Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:07 pm

:shock:

(They're actually snuggy hoods)
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267381 trinder
Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:51 pm

:angryfire: :banghead: no comment xx
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267401 demi
Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:26 am

Whats wrong with that? If its cold out its good to be warm! I like them :)
My mum has a jacket for her collie because he is really skinny, runs about like a maddy all the time chasing the farmer on his quad bike when hes bringing the animals in/out of the field, and hes funny about food, often refusing it. He gets cold and my mum keeps his jacket on him when he's outside. He also has husky booties for his paws as he often cuts them on stones when hes running about. Although, they don't last very long on him lol
Tim Minchin - The Good Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

'If you just close your eyes and block your ears, to the acumulated knowlage of the last 2000 years,
then morally guess what your off the hook, and thank Christ you only have to read one book'

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267407 boboff
Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:48 am

Did you make it yourself?

The horse looks like he's saying

" Get me out of this, that Mare's lost all respect for me now!"
Millymollymandy wrote:Bloody smilies, always being used. I hate them and they should be banned.
No I won't use a smiley because I've decided to turn into Boboff, as he's turned all nice all of a sudden. Grumble grumble.

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267411 The Riff-Raff Element
Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:09 am

boboff wrote:
" Get me out of this, that Mare's lost all respect for me now!"


Yeah. Should've gone for Dior or something.

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267416 trinder
Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:01 pm

Where do I start? I think that the reason anyone puts any kind of clothing/ covering on a horse is based on the fact that others do - so it must be right, marketing and sales people are certainly going to see it as an opportunity to produce cute and fashionable.

So I am assuming we can agree that the sales and marketing parasites are not worthy of further conversation.

Let me just focus on the background. Because the horse is not a human and has different priorities and needs. Because he/she (for the benefit of saving typing from here on I will refer to horses in general as he) is a prey animal he is designed is to be able to sleep standing up, ergo a locking mechanism in the feet/ankle area. The sleep needs are generally about 3 hours in 24. Lying down is a less pleasant activity for horses as their body weight means that their internal organs get squashed so lying down is more to do with either pain or sunbathing. Sorry for the lecture I just am making the point that in a natural setting a horse would be walking, searching out the tastiest bits of grazing and keeping on moving to keep warm. His coat would alter according to the (length of the day) temperature. With this natural coat he will have a thin coat for cooling in the warm weather and a thick dense coat in the winter to trap the body heat.

So given that we sleep for such long periods, left to wander a horse would be miles way. To stop this we put them in pens sometimes so small we call then stables. Not only does a stable help to contain them if we put a rug on it also keeps them clean and we stop the horse from growing a thick winter coat (the down side is that they do produce more body scurf (dandruff)). So we can ride or work them harder without them getting sweating and tiring.

The problem is that most UK horses are pleasure horses and get nothing like the exercise that they would if they were left outside to roam. According to Dr. Paul McGreevy on Horse Behavior
“on open ranges horses will travel to water holes up to 65-80 kilometres in a day. Where horses are managed at pasture, grazing is the main initiator of locomotion and the distance they cover has been estimated at 20 kilometres per day”.

So my opinion is. If horses are put into stables people very kindly provide them with food, but the food that we provide comes in one, two or three deliveries per day and is eaten in about 4 hours (in total) ergo the horse is bored for some 17 hours a day. He does not get to move around and use the body as it was designed.

In summary you and I move in and out of the house and temperature, we dress or undress accordingly. In general a horse would never experience the same contrasting temperatures. So living out he would never know that it could be any warmer. If however we build a shelter or provide a barn with clear open views so that he can move in and see his escape route he may well take advantage of that in driving rain. (Don’t be disappointed if they don’t use it though, mine prefer to gather in a copse of trees during bad weather. The field shelter is used in summer to escape flies.

When you put a coat on a horse he can neither feel the sun on his back nor scratch it properly by rolling. By nature the legs do grow a different coat to the rest of the body. Therefore if you rug the body the neck and head will not grow sufficient coat, but by muffling the ears you take away one of his most important detection method .You and I know there are no roaming predators but his instinct to be watchful and alert has been compromised.
Finally there are exceptions to every rule naturally sick horses would be excluded from this and it would be cruel to unclothe horses that have been rugged or clipped (shaved) during that same year.

Apologise in advance if I have offended anyone. I only wanted to try to give the horses point of view and fully accept that many people do not have the resources to be able to provide this lifestyle. I am also aware that many livery yard are unwilling to allow horses out all the time because of the damage they do to the next years grazing.

Oh Demi, as a final point, your mums dog only wears the coat when he is out- your mum carefully controls when he wears it and the reason he doesn’t grow a coat is because of the house heat.

People who have horse that live in, have to best bet or predict the weather. So when they put their horses out in the chilly rainy morning, wearing a coat, if it turns sunny in the afternoon a really enjoyable sunbathe is denied to their horses.
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267422 Carltonian Man
Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:06 pm

That's an interesting post Trinder. I've learnt something. :salute:

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267423 demi
Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:35 pm

My mums dog doesn't wear a coat every time he is outside, only when the weather is particularly cold/wet. He is a funny dog and he likes being outside and often refuses to come in. He does have a long thick coat because he is outside most of the time, but he is still skinny and would rather stay outside in the pouring rain soaking wet and shivering than come in the house next to the fire. Which is what the coat is for.

I can understand the about covering the horses ears. I was thinking why have they covered its ears, must be irritating for the horse.

But in cold weather i think horses do need a rug, especially the breeds from warm climates.

Iv had highland ponies which were kept outside year round with a shelter in the field. They get very thick hair in the winter and didn't need rugs. But a breed like the Arabian i think needs a coat during bad weather when they are being kept in northern climates.
Tim Minchin - The Good Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

'If you just close your eyes and block your ears, to the acumulated knowlage of the last 2000 years,
then morally guess what your off the hook, and thank Christ you only have to read one book'

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267430 trinder
Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:15 pm

A very quick google will lead you to loads of information on thoroughbreds and Arabians successfully grow a coat to suit the climate. I even know of a litter of spaniels one of which was exported to Canada and grew a coat unlike any spaniel coat seen In the UK.
This is a subject close to my heart so I have done a lot of reading. I do not expect others who are happy to continue with their current husbandry / views to really engage . It is okay by me not to refer to the sciences. X
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267432 marshlander
Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:03 pm

very interesting trinder. I don't keep horses myself, this getup is on the wish list of a friend who does. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. Like demi I supposed it must used for horses who can't grow winter coats, didn't know they all could.
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267434 trinder
Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:55 pm

thank you for your interest Marshlander.
I know this is slightly off the topic but horses really do not need shoes either ( with exceptions). There is a lot of evidence to support that they are considerably better off without. If you engage the services of a farrier they will call this a "grass trim" however if you can find someone ( I have a list) who is an equine podiatrist they call this a "barefoot" trim again a google search will give lots of information including great video footage ( excuse the pun) on exactly the bio mechanics of a hoof and why it is better (wherever possible) to be without shoes. Oh and incidentally it is significantly cheaper. because there is natural wearing of a hoof (unless it is a young animal and you are trying to ensure a good "correct movement) you will need the trim less often.
As far as feeding is concerned unless your friend intends to work the horse in " day long activity" i.e unable to graze long enough to keep up with the amount of work, then there is no need to feed short feed ( however I do advocate a thank you token gesture for every contact).

I do personally have some contact (built over the years-)advantages but if you know the right people to barter with and they have principles and values close to our self sufficientish ones it does not have to cost a fortune in terms of time or cost.
Oh and the Horses are in the best environment for them- so we are all winners.x

Finally if it is to the benefit of the horse I am always willing to spend time and effort helping someone. So feel free to pm me your friends question. If I can help , I will xx
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267444 boboff
Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:33 am

Very interesting Trinder.

I suppose it comes to the crux of the argument about domesticating any animals though.

We live in a society where we project our own feelings of nurture onto all our pets, which is many instances is pretty daft, but it does keep them "infantile" and therefore better cuddle bunnies.

But then allot of people object to killing things and eating them.

Anyway, horses are big and scarry.
Millymollymandy wrote:Bloody smilies, always being used. I hate them and they should be banned.
No I won't use a smiley because I've decided to turn into Boboff, as he's turned all nice all of a sudden. Grumble grumble.

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267446 contadina
Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:45 am

One of our dogs has a bald belly (she's never lost her puppy coat, possibly because she was abandoned at just two weeks old :( ) I could never put a coat on her though because she's a dog and not a child. Come winter time she does appreciate a blanket to snuggle under though :roll:

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267450 trinder
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:42 am

Yes Boboff. No one would do the things they do without thinking it was "the right thing to do" But here right out of the blue, we get information exchanges and no one being arsey (is that a word) I am very happy that people have read my post and said hum I didn't realise that "but I do now" it is not a bad thing to do the wrong thing if you don't know any better. Oh and as for being scary big beasts. I hate to say it but I cannot help thinking of little girls ( cos it is mostly) dragging slapping kicking and yelling at their ponies and these huge creatures that have teeth strong enough to break a mans arm simply pulling away from the abuse. So perhaps you can rethink these gentle cooperative creatures.

In reply to Contradina, that is the point, there are always exceptions to the rule. I was waiting for someone to come back about needing shelter for Donkeys and goats because as hairy as they are they do not have a good "wardrobe change".
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267454 boboff
Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:49 am

I don't think anyone wants to argue with you Trinder! You obviously know your subject and are very passionate about it, and arn't just taking a position to get a rise, or to prove your superiority!

Love it.

I agree I shouldn't be scared of them, my cousins run a XC in Devon and have some marvelous huge horses, wonderfull, but they are massive.... They do scare me.

We had a Welsh Cob for a few years who if History tells the story right was over 30 ( some people don't think this is right????) he lived out his last 5 years with us, and was lovely, stubborn, funny, and only really did what i asked him to do, and not my 4 year old daughter, he had a stable with the door open, and would only ever go in it to lick salt block! He prefered standing under trees when it rained, in the corner of the field where no one could see him and or sneak up on him. Horse flies would bite him and make him sore, this I didn't like, and can see coats helping with this? We got him from my friend who was an Electrician, the horse's name.... Sparky!
Millymollymandy wrote:Bloody smilies, always being used. I hate them and they should be banned.
No I won't use a smiley because I've decided to turn into Boboff, as he's turned all nice all of a sudden. Grumble grumble.

http://boboffs.blogspot.co.uk/


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