Good heavens, horse pjs!

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demi
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267461 demi
Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Yes horses, as do other furry mammals, coats change to suit their climate. And putting a coat full time on a horse can interfere with that. I also agree about the shoes, unless you are working your horse regularly on a hard surface. Our highland ponies were always turned out for the winter without shoes when we weren't riding them.

But i still think if its particularly bad weather they appreciate the extra warmth from the coat, plus it keeps the rain off.

My dog, a st bernard, sleeps with a blanket in the winter. We bring her in, she lays down in her bed, i put the blanket on her and she goes to sleep. Even though she's got a big thick furry coat she still likes the warmth of the blanket at night. I don't think coats are bad things for horses/dogs, if the weather is particularly bad, they like to be cosy. But i agree it is unnecessary most of the time.
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267492 trinder
Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:14 am

Hi Boboff thanks for your info on the welsh cob you lived with/ that lived with you. As to the age thing absolutely possible.
There was an article a few years ago that asked "what age still competing/working" ? (provable by birth/registration documents ) The request was for animals still competing and went up in 5 year age gaps, the oldest category was 40-45 years. I suspect that these would have been small lightweight show ponies that had been lead rein and or gymkhana sorts.
It makes sense that if they were born with beautifully proportions then they would have perfect natural conformation and their life would probably have started as show ponies then lead rein show ponies their life was then easily morphed into light weight ridden and if they had the right temperament and were biddable a good fast gymkhana pony at the end. They really did have a competition life and so always treated as an athlete in training with the correct warm up / cool down and stretching exercises. so very achievable.
The cob you lived with may have been one of the naturally well balanced and never overworked sorts so yes even though not given the "life of Reilly" it would naturally not suffer from arthritis and bone degeneration and live to a ripe old age.
As to the horse flies yeah if you had had the knowledge then you could have introduced lots of garlic into his diet and .... just like us he would have been a lot less palatable and got bothered a lot less but hey ho all is in retrospect. I am a little sad that from your post he did not have a companion.
When my horses last field companion died I wanted to allow the grieving time so not only did his dead field companion lay dead for a few days before being buried, I did not introduce a new (potential) friend until I felt that the grieving was over. This meant him standing next to the only familiar living thing that he could , some chickens, for a couple of days. We do teh best we can with what we know .Aint that a fact x
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267494 oldjerry
Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:08 am

I 've followed this with increasing interest, I know nothing about horses,(though I thnk Mules are excellent).Trinder,correct me if I'm wrong,but you seem to be highliighting something close to my heart,i.e. anthropomorphism.I cant help feeling this is more than just a human condition that often leads to animal cruelty as you've so well illustrated,but a kind of conciet .It's as if because we can drive cars,smoke fags,etc etc and other animals can't,we know a better way for them to exist.I'm rambling,because I can't find the right words, but it says a lot to me about humans disconnecting with the natural world,as well as resulting in some lousy farmers.

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267498 boboff
Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:42 am

Our Dog struggles with Rollies, and mainly sticks to Tailor Mades these days Jerry!

Sparky made friends with the Pigs, Chickens, cats, dogs, and the overwintered horses from a friend, and in his previous small holding was very protective of the Orphan Lambs!

It does say something though that there is no regulation for those who can keep animals. The RSPCA only act after the event. Not sure what I think about that, I am against regulation for the sake of it, but it's obvious from Trinder that there is allot of judged, and misjudged "cruelty" when people are given horses. It kind of puts Trinders sig into complete perspective.
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267505 trinder
Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Thanks Oldjerry. Yes it is s a sticky area putting human emotions on animals and I am treading quite carefully here because there is lots of evidence that they (horse and other animals too actually) do have feeling pretty much as we do. They have all the obvious ones like fear pain pleasure grief joy. But there is so much more things like jealousy, envy, personal likes and dislikes of friends, a sense of fainess, justice and frustration.
I won' t go into detail here on any of the above with examples unless you would like me to present you with the research evidence.
One of our most frustrating examples of bad husbandly is in the area of premium stallions and mating.
Sufficient to say not only is the fertility poor becasue she is being raped and therefore not receptive but then once the stallion has finished he is dragged off to the side of the mare, by the handler. If you have ever watched a natural mating the mare would walk forward and he would slide off and drop directly onto both front legs. The method of dragging him to the side creates pressure on joints that are not working properly. hence the stallion has a reduced life of activity and there are so many repeat matings. All very costly , but do you think the stud farms will listen...
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267511 trinder
Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:19 pm

just a quick utube related video it really is only 16 mins. long and gives a greater insight into Morality . A given that we have assumed was so complex would only apply to humans. Wrong !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk.
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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trinder
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267512 trinder
Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:35 pm

Far more unpleasant to watch but seems to be beneficial to the baboons (read abusive but useful)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lSZPT ... re=related.
At least humans are not the only ones who exploit.
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267580 Millymollymandy
Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:17 am

My neighbour's horses are outside in the summer and wear this sort of covering (not the stupid patterns nor the leg warmers :lol: - those look like the things you put on horses' legs when transporting them in a trailer to protect their legs) to keep the flies off.

Again in winter they are turned out in rugs to keep them warm.

However they are English.

The French don't use rugs, ever. I find British horses tend to be a bit more pampered, but then the French aren't bothered by ragwort either.
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #267582 Green Aura
Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:54 am

OK, hands up time - I've been avoiding this thread like the plague. Horses in pyjamas indeed :roll: I had a look today because I couldn't believe it had got to 2 pages! So I've just read it right through and thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks :thumbright:
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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #268069 the.fee.fairy
Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:15 pm

I learnt a lot on this thread! Thanks Trinder for all the info.

I've never been a horsey person, but was considering renting some land to people to house their horses.

And...I hate to say it, but in the cold winter, my dog will still be wearing her jumper.
And possibly her rain coat (she hates the rain - if she gets wet on one walk, it takes her weeks before she's ready to go out again).

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #268257 janeislay
Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:57 pm

Hope it's OK to come in on this thread, newbie as I am. But there are increasing numbers of ponies wearing these sort of coverall rugs due to them having Sweet Itch - an allergy to midges (and probably processed feeds too). I'm horrified by the numbers of ponies suffering these days - and sometimes still being bred from.

And as one with who runs thirty Highland ponies completely naturally, I too also condemn the in hand breeding techniques used by the majority of breeders. My current senior stallion is the gentlest, sweetest pony you could ever imagine and runs out in forty acres with his ladies.

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #268297 trinder
Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Welcome Janeislay yes please do join in. That's what I was hoping the minute I saw your opening introduction.
I agree the sweetich and the reasons for needing protection. I am not sure about feed being a contributor, but diet yes. There is still a long way to go to fully understanding it.
There are some good people trying to make a difference to the quality of life of horses but methinks it will be a long haul. A good start has been made in the racing world some trainers ( good winning ones ) going the barefoot route as well as a good Prix St George dressage rider ( lucinda Mcalpine) has her horses ( including her stallions) living in family herds - living out and not clipped or rugged

Just as an afterthought have you seen the latest info on Laminitis? I will post a link if you are interested. Also I can point you to a an Equine behaviour forum with one of the members in your area.
On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

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Re: Good heavens, horse pjs!

Post: #268517 janeislay
Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:58 am

Thanks for the welcome, trinder. Yes, I have read the latest research re laminitis - a subject I've always been interested in, as my ponies have access to so much grass. I'm not sure if I'm a member of the Equine behaviour forum - probably it's my friend Deedee - from here on Islay.

Not sure either, of the difference between "feed" and "diet" ? I was thinking of the amount of vegetable oils in feeds nowadays that are way too high in inflammatory omega 6.


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