Wine form cordial

[romie]

I'm well aware that wine can be made from Ribena

After a recent trip to a big agricultural show I purchased some Mr Fitzpatrick cordial from the last temperance bar in the UK (allegedly)

Now Mr Romie LOVES the dandelion and burdock and i love the saspirilla
What do you reckon?
How would wine taste made from either of these???
Can i simply use the Ribena recipes???
Do i need to add anything else...hmmm...

[MKG]

Check the ingredients list. If the word "sorbate" appears anywhere, then you may (or may not) have a problem. Ribena contains sorbate, but not much, and a good dose of yeast is able to overcome its effects. However, if there's too much sorbate in there, the yeast may die off after one generation and you'll have a stuck fermentation.

The only way to find out, really, is to try it - and yes, the Ribena recipe will do nicely. Mind you, I haven't too much idea what the finished product will taste like (except that dandelion and burdock without any sugar at all is as bitter as all hell), but you can always sweeten the finished wine.

You've actually hit upon what I think is the real fun part of winemaking - trying something new. Enjoy!

Oh, by the way, I've read on a couple of winemaking sites that boiling the cordial drives off the sorbate. You can choose to believe this if you like, but I can find (and I've looked) no physical or chemical reason why any such thing should happen - and I think the flavour of the cordial may change markedly in the cooking.

Mike

[prison break fan]

Can I please have the Ribena recipe? Many thanks! pbf.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Check the ingredients list. If the word "sorbate" appears anywhere, then you may (or may not) have a problem. Ribena contains sorbate, but not much, and a good dose of yeast is able to overcome its effects. However, if there's too much sorbate in there, the yeast may die off after one generation and you'll have a stuck fermentation.

Mike

Sorbate by it's self will have no effect if added at the initial stages - it requires the presence of a reasonably significant body of alcohol to prevent yest division.

I have seen the photos and testimonial of a joker who turfed it in thinking it was yeast, then not wanting to waste the brew chucked in a starter bottle anyway - it went mad initially and then fermented out fairly normally by his account - i don't recall the SG readings (if he had them) so it may be once the brew hit a high enough % the yeast reproduction stopped.

This said, give it a go you will get some fermentation at least, it just may not reach as higher alcoholic potential as the yeast would other wise promise, consequently i would add any additional sugar in stages and push the alcoholic potential slowly so you don't end up with a dead fermentation with too much residual sugar left in it.

All the best

[MKG]

Very true, FTB - but we don't know how much sorbate is in the cordials. Hence the may or may not. It doesn't "require" the alcohol, by the way - it's just that alcohol increases its efficiency. The more alcohol in solution, the less sorbate is needed to prevent further cell division, but a hefty dose of sorbate would certainly make life difficult for a starter yeast. Hopefully, food manufacturers aren't allowed to use a hefty dose.

Ribena wine recipe (or any other cordial for that matter) ...

12 fluid ounce bottle of cordial.
2 to 3 lbs of sugar (depending upon required strength and style ... 3lbs would either give you over 15% alcohol or, more likely, a sweet wine)
A quarter of a level teaspoon of citric acid (or juice of a quarter of a lemon)
Yeast nutrient (not absolutely necessary, but there's not much yeast food in cordial)
Yeast, of course.
Top up to 1 gallon with water.

The standard net recipe calls for the boiling of the cordial - as I said earlier, I believe this makes no difference whatsoever. Apart from that, dissolve the sugar in a couple of pints of hot water, allow to cool, add everything else, put under an airlock, and wait.

Mike

EDIT: Just done my homework. EU regulations are not more than 300 mg/litre in cordials. Wine has not more than 200 mg/litre. So, given that you're diluting the cordial to a gallon, there can't be more than about 23 mgs/litre in there. That's way below what is used in commercial wines, so I think you may be completely safe to ferment and my burbling on about sorbates in cordials is a load of hot air.

[prison break fan]

Thankyou very much MKG. Since we met?- you have transformed our drinking habits!! Your alcoholic water is a roaring success as is the fruit tea! I have a whole new hobby, and the potting shed has now become the brewing barn! pbf.

[Silver Ether]

Very true, FTB - but we don't know how much sorbate is in the cordials. Hence the may or may not. It doesn't "require" the alcohol, by the way - it's just that alcohol increases its efficiency. The more alcohol in solution, the less sorbate is needed to prevent further cell division, but a hefty dose of sorbate would certainly make life difficult for a starter yeast. Hopefully, food manufacturers aren't allowed to use a hefty dose.

Ribena wine recipe (or any other cordial for that matter) ...

12 fluid ounce bottle of cordial.
2 to 3 lbs of sugar (depending upon required strength and style ... 3lbs would either give you over 15% alcohol or, more likely, a sweet wine)
A quarter of a level teaspoon of citric acid (or juice of a quarter of a lemon)
Yeast nutrient (not absolutely necessary, but there's not much yeast food in cordial)
Yeast, of course.
Top up to 1 gallon with water.

The standard net recipe calls for the boiling of the cordial - as I said earlier, I believe this makes no difference whatsoever. Apart from that, dissolve the sugar in a couple of pints of hot water, allow to cool, add everything else, put under an airlock, and wait.

Mike

EDIT: Just done my homework. EU regulations are not more than 300 mg/litre in cordials. Wine has not more than 200 mg/litre. So, given that you're diluting the cordial to a gallon, there can't be more than about 23 mgs/litre in there. That's way below what is used in commercial wines, so I think you may be completely safe to ferment and my burbling on about sorbates in cordials is a load of hot air.

Hmmmm I have some home meade elderberry cordial .... Can I use the above recipe for that.

[MKG]

Thankyou very much MKG. Since we met?- you have transformed our drinking habits!! Your alcoholic water is a roaring success as is the fruit tea! I have a whole new hobby, and the potting shed has now become the brewing barn! pbf.

Errmmmm ... It wasn't my fault, your Honour

@ Silver Ether ... No reason why not. The only thing I'd say is that cordials usually produce very light-bodied wines, and elderberry is more traditionally a full-bodied wine. Do you happen to know how much elderberry equivalent is in your cordial? If it's the equivalent of between 3 and 4 lbs, then you'll get full-blown elderberry wine from the cordial. If it's about 2 lbs, you'll get something like ... errmmm ... well, ordinary red wine. If its less, you'll get a very light wine. Not that I'm saying that would be no good - I've just never had a light elderberry wine.

Mike

[CyberPaddy66]

As long as the cordial you are using has no preservatives in then yes you can make wine out of it, if there are preservatives in there you may be able to boil them out but I prefer not to bother with them myself.

My method...

Make a red wine from grape juice or a basic kit.
Top up with cordial and pressed grape juice.
Leave to ferment out and mature.
Bottle and drink as necessary

Just made a red wine kit with Cherry juice... OH MY... drinking it now... Can anyone say LUSH?

[MKG]

LUSH

But seriously, CyberPaddy, I'd be very interested in anything you know about boiling off preservatives. Drop us a PM, mate.

Mike

[romie]

Thanks for the advice

I've finally started a gallon of dandelion and burdock using the Ribena recipe, apart from looking a lot like guiness, it appears to be behaving pretty normally

I'll let you all know how it goes

[Silver Ether]

Thankyou very much MKG. Since we met?- you have transformed our drinking habits!! Your alcoholic water is a roaring success as is the fruit tea! I have a whole new hobby, and the potting shed has now become the brewing barn! pbf.

Errmmmm ... It wasn't my fault, your Honour

@ Silver Ether ... No reason why not. The only thing I'd say is that cordials usually produce very light-bodied wines, and elderberry is more traditionally a full-bodied wine. Do you happen to know how much elderberry equivalent is in your cordial? If it's the equivalent of between 3 and 4 lbs, then you'll get full-blown elderberry wine from the cordial. If it's about 2 lbs, you'll get something like ... errmmm ... well, ordinary red wine. If its less, you'll get a very light wine. Not that I'm saying that would be no good - I've just never had a light elderberry wine.

Mike

Oh this is fruit and more fruit so I should do ok... thanks for the info will give it a try ... still got about 6 bottles left

[romie]

Well the Dandelion and Burdock is well past its first crazy ferment and it smells wonderful, like wine with a slight D&B aftertaste
However this happening soo soon after its starts means itll probably turn into something vile knowing my luck...one can but keep trying
I'll post the conclusion...eventually...if ive not posioned myself

[MKG]

In the kind of weather we've had (i.e. crap but still fairly warm), a short fermentaion period isn't a surprise. I've had stuff this year which stopped within 10 days, but my hydrometer showed it had fermented to dryness.

It won't poison you - but I'm not saying it won't be vile. On the other hand, it will be interesting - and certainly something to add to the knowledge banks. If it does taste vile, try pouring off a bottleful or so and adding a couple of teaspoons of sugar. You'd be surprised how that can resurrect an apparently awful drink (don't do it to the whole lot if you're not going to drink it right away).

Mike

[MKG]

Dohhhhhhhhh!!!



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