cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

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trinder
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cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276855 trinder
Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:48 pm

Hi peps I hope someone can help.Earlier this year I made, bottled and froze quite a few litres of elderflower cordial. Some time ago I had asked if it were possible to turn the cordial into champagne and was given a good method.
Unfortunately I goto the stage where I should have bottled and got distracted ( family issues) I have now had the mixture (that I should have only left for a day or two) sitting in a bucket for nearly a fortnight, a few days ago I bottled two litres and there is absolutely no fizz to it at all. I still have quite a few litres in the bucket is there any way I can recover the situation or are they rubbish.
thanks :icon_smile:
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276858 Maykal
Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:41 am

Only guessing here as I've never made champagne, but I suppose you added some yeast and now it's fermented out and the yeast has settled into a sediment at the bottom. I think you probably need to prime the bottles first by adding a little sugar to them before you rack the elderflower into them. Dormant yeast in the liquid with them reactivate in the presence of the new sugar and started producing gases, which'll build up in the bottle and give you your fizz.

Mike

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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276866 trinder
Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:55 pm

Thanks Mike. This is the recipe I followed last year

So, for each LITRE of cordial, add a tablespoon of mild white wine vinegar and then make up to 7 litres with tepid water. That's it for adjustments. Now we come to decision time - to yeast or not to yeast. You can then leave it in a covered bucket in the hope that a wild fermentation will begin (that's the traditional way) or you can introduce your own yeast. If you decide to add yeast, then you have another decision - how much. A wild fermentation would start with only a few yeast cells getting in. If you want to imitate that as much as possible, then add a pinch of yeast. If you want to be doubly sure, add a level teaspoon - but be aware that this will soon turn into a lot and WILL make your champagne cloudy."Cover with a cloth and leave for between one and four days, until it looks like it's starting to bubble a bit. Strain through a muslin/cheesecloth into swing-top bottles and drink after about two weeks.


It worked very well. It also means that I can bottle more cordial and freeze it then just turn as much as I need into champagne.
As I said I got distracted and the natural fermentation either didn't start or died before I got a chance to bottle it.
I will repost as soon as I see changes. p.s I did not have any yeast so put a small (1/2 tsp) marmite in each bottle. I am accepting that it will be very very cloudy now LOL
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276870 Maykal
Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:37 am

I think if you taste it you should be able to work out if it started and died, or didn't start at all. If it did start, it should taste pretty dry by now. And there's nothing wrong with cloudy! :D I've never heard of using Marmite - does it leave any after-taste?

Elderflower cordial is made in my village here in Transylvania on a large scale and mostly exported to the UK. The locals make something called 'socata' with elderflower flowers, sugar, water and lemon slices. It's bottled and left in the sun for a few days to lightly ferment.

The guys who make the cordial also give the leftover pulp to the locals who distil it to make a kind of elderflower 'rachiu' (kind of brandy) which is pretty tasty - I prefer to the regular plum brandy to be honest.

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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276878 trinder
Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:19 am

Thanks Mike, the recipe your locals make sounds very like the one on this forum for Champagne.

8 litres (2 gallons) water
1.25 kg (2.5 lbs/5 cups) sugar
8 large elderflower heads
4 Lemons
4 tablespoons mild white wine vinegar
Method

Boil the water and pour over the sugar to dissolve it.

Cool and add the elderflowers, juice of the two lemons, slices of the other two and the vinegar.

Cover with a cloth and leave for a day.

Strain with a fine sieve or muslin cloth, squeezing the flowers as you do to release more flavour.

Store in screw top bottles.

It will be ready in about 10 days to a fortnight and should be drunk within a month.


I have read in one post when refering to starting the yeast that feeding a small amount of Marmite (contains yeast) can help, so it was in my opinion a simple "kill or cure" approach. the bottles are not yet beginning to expand so I don't think anything is happening yet . I will keep watching though
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276887 MKG
Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:44 am

trinder wrote:... p.s I did not have any yeast so put a small (1/2 tsp) marmite in each bottle. I am accepting that it will be very very cloudy now LOL


:iconbiggrin: :iconbiggrin: :wave:

Oh dear! You won't like it, unless you're a fan of Marmitey elderflowers. Marmite isn't a yeast substitute - it's a yeast nutrient, to be added to a GALLON of must at the outset of making your wine, and then only at a rate of 1/4 to 1/2 a level teaspoon to a GALLON.

If you left it in the bucket too long, all that happened is that the yeast already in there used up the sugar before you got back to it. You could have recovered it by adding a bit more sugar syrup (just enough to get the bubbles going) and then bottling after a couple of further days. I'd put it down to experience if I were you (and having said that, you're probably going to turn around and tell me that it's the best you've ever tasted).

PS ... Marmite is made from dead yeast cells.

Mike
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276905 bonniethomas06
Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:04 pm

Oh dear Trinder. Top points for initiative anyway! You'll either love it or you'll hate it!
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276919 trinder
Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:14 pm

LOL. I remind myself of the old comic character "colonel Blimp" starting of with one recipe then changing to a disaster... The good news is that both Bonnie Thomas and MKG are alive and still posting. :wave:

I think I might like Marmite champagne- I just need to get it to fizz a bit !! any ideas ?

I am now looking for advice on my latest venture..cider making. I had a huge crop of eating apples and took them along to a local fruit farm. While I waited they pressed 70 litres of apple juice and fed it into 2 (h2go) bags each could hold 80 litre so I split it between 2 to allow for gas :dontknow: now what do I do?? any suggestions or advice gratefully received.
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276921 bonniethomas06
Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:31 pm

Oh dear, I have been lost in FB too long, I immediately looked for a 'like' button for your post Trinder! But I am indeed live and posting :wave:
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276930 MKG
Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:53 pm

Just chuck in some yeast, Trinder - it'll ferment. But leave an opening for the gas to escape somehow. One teaspoonful of yeast will do for 5 gallons (about 23 litres) so adjust accordingly.

Eating apples may or may not make good cider - commercial cider is made from quite sour apples. But there's only one way to find out.

Mike

Edit - same goes for your Marmite champagne. But not so much yeast. You ARE kidding, aren't you?
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #276958 trinder
Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Ho hum. It'll be fine Mike..... one of the plastic bottles is just beginning to get fat !! I have just put a pinch of yeast into each of the none swollen bottles and given then all a good shake ( redistribute the marmite (LOL))..
I have put a teaspoon of yeast into each of my cider containers now what ?
I like this learn as you go method .
Imagine how bad I'll be when my memory starts to fail me...........
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #277011 MKG
Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:32 am

trinder wrote:Ho hum. It'll be fine Mike..... one of the plastic bottles is just beginning to get fat !! I have just put a pinch of yeast into each of the none swollen bottles and given then all a good shake ( redistribute the marmite (LOL))..
I have put a teaspoon of yeast into each of my cider containers now what ?
I like this learn as you go method .
Imagine how bad I'll be when my memory starts to fail me...........


Now wait. Don't forget to allow the gas to escape, though, and keep an eye on those bottles - if they get really, really solid, let a bit of the gas out.
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Re: cordial into champagne, now I'm stuck !

Post: #277046 dave45
Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:53 pm

Cider - I have been turning my surplus apples into cider for the last 3 or 4 years: get juice, add yeast and pectolase, ferment out, bottle. I have used eaters, cookers and all mixes and it all comes out dry (of course) and quaffable. I have about 8 different varieties in my garden. I read somewhere that for really good cider you need a variety called Tremlett's Bitter which is apparently inedibly sour. I spoke to a North Wales side of the road cider maker earlier this year, and asked him what varieties he used - "anything I can get my hands on" quoth he. And he was a serious cidermaker - nice oak barrels for ageing 'n all.

So I would guess you can use anything at all for a passable cider but years of blending experience and access to the correct varieties for a great one.


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