Copywright

[Andy Hamilton]

It has been brought to my attention that some posts from here have been copied and pasted onto other forums without a link as to where they came from. Please get permission from the person who posted and provide a link back to where it was taken from before doing this.

This community is about sharing but this does not seem like sharing to me.

Many thanks and I hope I don't sound too harsh.

[dibnah]

I admit I stole the curry song

sorry

no really

[Andy Hamilton]

I admit I stole the curry song

sorry

no really

Slaped wrists there

[Millymollymandy]

Help! I'm sure a lot of us do it without realising - like with recipes for example. Are we supposed to ask Delia's (or whoever's) permission?

[Martin]

in law, yes you do!
There is a myth that has grown up about "public domain", which is utter nonsense - if you create something, you hold the copyright on it - you may choose to share it, you may choose to sell rights to it, but it is very much YOUR property, unless you specify otherwise!

[hedgewizard]

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyr ... aw_summary

Copyright arises when an individual or organisation creates a work, and applies to a work if it is regarded as original, and exhibits a degree of labour, skill or judgement.

So song lyrics are covered; precis of books are covered; thought-out advice is covered; irrelevant banter is not covered. The copyright holder is the author (i.e. the poster) rather than the publisher (i.e. Andy), although it's normal to contact the webmaster if the work's author is not easily identifiable (e.g. text within the pages outside the forum where the author hasn't signed the page).

Copyright law is generally only actionable where the work might have a market value - song lyrics or recipes for example. Mentioning how you plant your leeks probably wouldn't be actionable unless it's a technique that isn't widely known and thus might be a draw for your new bestselling gardening book!

Netiquette is a different matter though - yes, very bad manners to copy and paste without linking to the original!

[dibnah]

Netiquette is a different matter though - yes, very bad manners to copy and paste without linking to the original!

[Wombat]

Can't remember doing it but if I did, Sorrrry!

Nev

[Stonehead]

The problem is not netiquette but copyright.

If I write something for publication on this forum, then I own the copyright and licence it to the the owners of Selfsufficientish for use according to the terms and conditions I agreed to when signing up.

Other people can then quote from or use excerpts from my published posts under the concept of fair use (see the Copyright Act). The use has to be acceptable under the terms of fair dealing, the quoted material has to be justified and no more than is necessary, and the source of the quoted material must be mentioned, along with the name of the author.

The entire post cannot be lifted and used elsewhere, although you could use a quote from the post and then link to the actual post on Selfsufficientish.

I contacted Andy as I've had several of my posts pop up elsewhere, in their entirety - sometimes credited, sometimes not. What is particularly galling is that the posts have been appearing on forums that I do not want to be associated with.

At this stage, I'm assuming people were doing this in ignorance which is why I asked Andy to flag it up before naming names and forums (although I have been contacting the owners of those forums to point out that they are in breach of copyright).

However, if it continues then I will take it further - what I write belongs to me, I choose who to share it with and where to have it published.

I hope this doesn't come across as overly tetchy, but I'm very particular about who I associate with. Selfsufficientish is one of only four forums that I take part in and the only one covering selfsufficiency/smallholding/crofting. (The others cover parenting, education and genealogy.)

Anyway, y'all have a nice day, y'hear!

[Wombat]

Yes massuh, we's all havin' a great day heah!

[Millymollymandy]

Well I'm lost as to what I may or may not do. Can we do a link to someone's article on another site?

i.e. someone has asked for websites with clear pictures of foraged food - I was going to do a link to an article that Cab did on Downsizer but now I guess I had better not.

So how do we help people if we can't put links to articles on other web sites? Lots of the forums I go on have links to articles in newspapers or other websites for discussion too.

I don't quote people who have written bumph on forums on other forums though.

[Stonehead]

Well I'm lost as to what I may or may not do. Can we do a link to someone's article on another site?

i.e. someone has asked for websites with clear pictures of foraged food - I was going to do a link to an article that Cab did on Downsizer but now I guess I had better not.

So how do we help people if we can't put links to articles on other web sites? Lots of the forums I go on have links to articles in newspapers or other websites for discussion too.

I don't quote people who have written bumph on forums on other forums though.

You're misinterpreting!

You can link to other websites - that's nothing to do with the copyright issue.

What's been happening is that people have copied my posts, in their entirety, and then posted them in other forums. That is a breach of copyright.

If they'd used a quote (ie a short section of a post), attributed it to me and/or Selfsufficientish, and linked it back to the original post on Ish, then that would be okay.

With photos, don't use someone else's photo on Ish or your own site without their permission. What you can do is link to the page with the photo. (Linking direct to the photo - so there's no context - is not a breach of copyright but it is bad netiquette.)

Hope that makes sense.



PS I have 20 years experience of copyright law in various countries and across all media while the OH, before becoming a teacher, studied law.

[Mancblue]

Makes perfect sense to me Stoney, I can't believe someone has copied some of your post's in their entirety and posted elsewhere, as there own work I'm assuming?

I'm mean come on, Stoney's post's make no sense at all

The above is the work of Mancblue and is owned under copyright law, anyone found to be using the above without the express permission of myself will be tickled until such time I see fit.

[Millymollymandy]

Well I'm lost as to what I may or may not do. Can we do a link to someone's article on another site?

i.e. someone has asked for websites with clear pictures of foraged food - I was going to do a link to an article that Cab did on Downsizer but now I guess I had better not.

So how do we help people if we can't put links to articles on other web sites? Lots of the forums I go on have links to articles in newspapers or other websites for discussion too.

I don't quote people who have written bumph on forums on other forums though.

You're misinterpreting!

You can link to other websites - that's nothing to do with the copyright issue.

What's been happening is that people have copied my posts, in their entirety, and then posted them in other forums. That is a breach of copyright.

If they'd used a quote (ie a short section of a post), attributed it to me and/or Selfsufficientish, and linked it back to the original post on Ish, then that would be okay.

With photos, don't use someone else's photo on Ish or your own site without their permission. What you can do is link to the page with the photo. (Linking direct to the photo - so there's no context - is not a breach of copyright but it is bad netiquette.)

Hope that makes sense.



PS I have 20 years experience of copyright law in various countries and across all media while the OH, before becoming a teacher, studied law.

I didn't realise this was all about you. But it applies to everyone.

So if I went on another forum (this is theoretical of course) and put in a link to a posting you made on SSish, that would be OK?

Cos that is the same as doing a link, from here, to (for example) Cab's article on Downsizer. He has as much copyright over that article as you do over yours.

I just want to get this clear.

However I think that where repices are concerned, they are being copied all over the internet including this forum without giving the original author any credit!

[Stonehead]

I didn't realise this was all about you. But it applies to everyone.

So if I went on another forum (this is theoretical of course) and put in a link to a posting you made on SSish, that would be OK?

Does it make a difference if it's about me? No. Does it apply to everyone? Yes.

You can link to a post in another forum or to another website. What you can't do is lift an post written by me or anyone else and publish it in its entirety on another forum, website, magazine, newsletter, newspaper, etc.

You can use a quote from the post, giving the author's details, and you could use that to link back to the original (like a citation in a book).

Cos that is the same as doing a link, from here, to (for example) Cab's article on Downsizer. He has as much copyright over that article as you do over yours.

Not sure what the problem is here. Yes, every author owns their own copyright unless they assign or licence it to someone else. So, Cab has copyright over his work wherever it appears, just as you do too.

As I said, it's not about my copyright - it's about all authors' copyright.

However I think that where repices are concerned, they are being copied all over the internet including this forum without giving the original author any credit!

I'm not referring to recipes - I've had posts on education, crofting, parenting and pigs lifted and posted elsewhere.

However, recipes are also copyrighted. The recipes I've posted either come from very old cookbooks (more than 70 years), have been developed by myself or members of my family, or are mergers of several recipes adopted to match my tastes.

My bread-and-butter pickle recipe for example is based to a large part on a late Victorian recipe with influences from two other more recent cookbooks (mainly the spices) and then fine-tuned over several batches.

If I do find a good recipe published somewhere else, I give the recipe's name, some of the ingredents and the source but not the recipe itself.

I hope that's more clear than the previous post.