Multi fuel stoves etc

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boboff
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #243499 boboff
Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:25 am

Plan a trip to Trago Mills in Newton Abbott, the stoves, and more importantly the pipes are real cheap.
Air is more important than anything, you need to make the the stove is sealed on the doors, and that the flue has no leaks until it gets in the chimney.
You will have to block up your fireplace and insert the flue pipe into it, and seal it well. Trago do firecement, and fire retardent silcone stuff to help with this, this really is most important.
If want a cheap and dirty job, just use 22mm plasterboard on the front of the fireplace, use the white gripfill to stick to the walls, then get some cheap wooden batten or arcitrave to stick round the edge to make it look nice.
If you fireplace draws well this should be ok, but the do recommend flue liners, which can be expensive ( the above you could do for £500, but expect to pay £1200 to have a flue liner fitted!)
A cheap fire properly installed with no gaps will burn twice as well as an expensive fire badly installed, promice.
Don't forget that you will need to sweep the chimney and the pipes so I would recommend min 5" flu pipes, 6" if you can.
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #243691 Bristolbelle
Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:23 pm

Thankyou boboff it's been about 7 years since I visited Trago, Thanks for the tip.... I feel a road tripo coming on :icon_smile:
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #243692 Bristolbelle
Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:27 pm

boboff wrote:Plan a trip to Trago Mills in Newton Abbott, the stoves, and more importantly the pipes are real cheap.
Air is more important than anything, you need to make the the stove is sealed on the doors, and that the flue has no leaks until it gets in the chimney.
You will have to block up your fireplace and insert the flue pipe into it, and seal it well. Trago do firecement, and fire retardent silcone stuff to help with this, this really is most important.
If want a cheap and dirty job, just use 22mm plasterboard on the front of the fireplace, use the white gripfill to stick to the walls, then get some cheap wooden batten or arcitrave to stick round the edge to make it look nice.
If you fireplace draws well this should be ok, but the do recommend flue liners, which can be expensive ( the above you could do for £500, but expect to pay £1200 to have a flue liner fitted!)
A cheap fire properly installed with no gaps will burn twice as well as an expensive fire badly installed, promice.
Don't forget that you will need to sweep the chimney and the pipes so I would recommend min 5" flu pipes, 6" if you can.



How is the chimney swept once everything has been sealed? Am I right in thinking that there is access via the flue pipe? Sorry for the daft question :iconbiggrin:
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #243704 Thomzo
Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:03 pm

Hi
Not a daft question. Most of the smaller, cheaper stoves just get swept through the stove. The poles are flexible enough to bend around the corner. The bigger stoves, such as Rayburns have a door in the flue where it comes out of the stove. Some chimneys had little doors on the outside so that they could be swept and which also provided access for smoking food.

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249567 scotsmart
Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:44 am

Hello all, i dont yet have a multi stove but i think i am leaning toward it away from our current dashed costly electric storage heating (the absolute worst invention ever) and definately worse for the disabled or ill like myself as when in the home wll day its to uncontrollable and unreliable to supply heat on demand, anyway old rope we all know this !

So after the hurricane thats just hit Scotland and reeked havoc let alone cut the power for three full days which meant we had no heat at all which was majorily unbearable so thus we must find a cure whether via multi-fuel or elsewhere so i am looking for advice basically on our best, most cost effective options??


Knowing very little about this subject other than what a friend in Wales has told me who has a Clearview that she maintains she only uses a bag of anthracite a week in and better still only cleans it once a week and it happily burns 24/7 heating a good sized living/dining room, not only that it can also have rads attached to it to heat other rooms, does this sound about right? if so whats the rough cost of such a system and is there any special permissions required to fit one (we are in a rented housing association property) and lastly the rough running costs per month of such a system?

We currently use around £25 a week in electricity and our cottage is never warm so we need to change this and rapidly any suggestions of course welcomed ..


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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249571 Bowlander
Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:54 am

We have a Clearview 650 in the kitchen and a Vision 500 in the living room. The 650 powers the heating system and provides hot water, the 500 just heats the water.
Theres a back up oil boiler linked in but we've only had it on for 3 hours this autumn. We burn wood provided by the estate - mostly spruce and some beech/oak, and Stoveheat smokeless briquettes.

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249575 boboff
Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:40 am

Given your mentioning illness etc I would perhaps look at electric radiators. They plug in the wall sockets.

You can get them in Argos for £40 a go, they srew on the wall and can be used with a digital 7 days timer which costs about £3 a go.

If you then switch your tarriff to a normal one, your day time rate will be cheaper, and that should be a benefit to keeping you warm when you are wanting to be warm during the day.

I find that these keeping the living room and the bedroom just "warm" improves your quality of life no end.

The thing with Multi Fuel is they do need work, getting the fuel in, dealing with the ash and dust, sweeping chimneys etc.

In the mean time ask the landlord to replace the "heating" and ask they consider putting in a fire and back boiler. Then at least you'll have a back up when the electricity fails!

Above all else make sure you get your loft and wall insulated well, and get rid of draughts, there are lots of people offering it free or at little cost nowadays.

To put in a fire, with a lined flue, back boiler and Rads you are talking minimum £4k up to £10k.... so two hundred quid on 750w rads from Argos might be a cheaper solution all round.
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249585 Thomzo
Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:46 pm

If you are thinking of a multi-fuel fire then you mustn't underestimate the amount of work involved. Even if you buy all your logs ready cut or use coal (both of which can be quite expensive), you still have to carry it into the house, store it and load up the fire and keep it loaded. The larger (and much more expensive) stoves only need to be loaded every couple of days but it's still hard work. And they do have to be emptied and they create a lot of ash.

Having said that, I wouldn't be without mine. If you have a suitable chimney, and basic DIY skills then a cheap, small stove from fleabay with no rads or water heating capabilities, can be had and installed (as described above) for a couple of hundred pounds.

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249588 scotsmart
Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:26 pm

Thanks all.
Boboff, i think you may of missed the point i need something that doesnt require electricity to operate as we live in a winter time frequent power cut area (sadly unknown to is prior to us moving but we would of anyway) so plug in electric rads are useless, in anycase we had them in our previous home! i would suggest that you dont beleive the hype with this type of heating in our vast 7 yr experiences with them over the storage heating anyways to keep our (more modern, better insulated home i may add) they worked out more expensive overall, although without doubt more useable certainly no matter how you look at it, no matter the hype sales patter and garbage supplied my a manufacturer a kw of power costs the same irrespective of what its being used for and sadly to date NO electic heating is cheap thats the reality, some certainly may use or keep the heat slightly better however thats a debate that is endless and futile, suffice to say im not intrested in Dimplex or any other electric type heaters but thanks for your comments all the same

Ask the council to replace the heating, your surely having a laugh, and pressumably have never had a council/ha property on rent then? they most certainly will not change the heating under any circumstances least of which due to me needing it? we are attempting to get it reinsulated and of course draughtproofed however thats also not as easy as it sounds but its being dealt with.. ah if only it were that easy, i have found in my now 25+ yrs as a council tenant is to arrange and pay for any additions, replacements or upgrades yourself, hence my questions as its a subject i know little if anything about, what i do know is our next door neighbours have an open fire in their lounge in an identical house to this and it never feels cold!

I live here with my career and partner so any cleaning etc wouldnt be to much of an issue as she is ablebodied and willing to do whatever is nessesary.

We were led to beleive that the Clearview particularily can be left for around a week to burn away without requiring cleaned out which kind of appeals massively again hence my questions.

Once again many thanks all, i think this possibly needs more investigation.


Slanj

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249592 Thomzo
Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:19 pm

I've also lived in an area with regular power cuts. With a good log burner (we had a rayburn which provided hot water to the downstairs bathroom) it wasn't a problem. Whatever you get, make sure you can put a pot/kettle on the top.

Now I only have a tiny 4kw stove but even that only needs cleaning out once a week. It's not a big job if you do have to do it more often. Just a quick shovel out into a bucket. I can't do it without putting ash all over the rug though.

My advice, if you get a stove with an ash pan, bin it. Waste of time. Much easier to just shovel the ash from the bottom of the stove straight into a bucket.

Boboff is definitely right about insulation though. My mum also has electric storage heaters and she pays about £30 per month to heat a two-bed semi bungalow. The difference is that her home is insulated to the max so it stays warm. While you're waiting for the council to sort out the insulation, invest in really thick, lined curtains and some thick rugs. They make a huge difference.

Good luck
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249594 demi
Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:13 pm

we have this: http://www.plamen.hr/Proizvod.aspx?ProdID=3

they're a serbian company ( we're in macedonia ).

we burn wood in it and its fantastic for heating/cooking.

we also have this in the bedroom : http://www.plamen.hr/Proizvod.aspx?ProdID=16

we dont have central heating and the wood burners keep us warm during the winter.

its also possible to cook on this stove, which i did before we got our proper solid fule cooker and this stove used to be in the kitchen.
Last edited by demi on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249595 scotsmart
Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:15 pm

Zoe
:flower: thanks for your answer very true of course, we are currently looking at several options not really definate on whether we should be seeking just "emergency systems" or full-time replacement heating/power sources, as with a new home there are just so, so many drains on our depleting finances!

So pressuming we get just a Clearview type stove to replace our current fake solid fuel stove we are wondering what other sources or means is there, i have also been looking at a few generators to produce our own power when in need that ideally would power a few lights, possibly a radio/tv and a few other nessesities is this at all possible at an affordable cost given that i dont iundertand KW's at all i would know what size i would require let alone where to begin..


One last thing about the Msf stoves is can a system be fitted in stages so as to cut costs all in one hit, i.e. could we fit the stove first, and possibly the rads later, followed by maybe the water heating system or would it require to be fitted in one hit? as i doubt that would be possible right now if the costs are as suggested around £4k whilst i have been a council/ha tenant for many years i have always done what i can myself or had it commercially done at my cost to ensure its done right and with decent quality materials we are eligible for many things but often prefer to do it our own way which was part and parcel of moving here but we simply were not totally understanding of just how often and for how long power cuts can and do last about here even normally without a big storm the worst in man years that certainly hasnt helped this time around however its highlighted why we must do something and quick. I require ideally an even temperature to stay reasonably comfortable for this we understand its NOT nessesarily a council issue as they would simply counter that we should simply move to a gas centrally heated house which im not willing to do having spent my life finding this house so im not willing to give it up and will pay myself for a suitable remedy.

What other options either full or part-time to try to combat the issues we find ourselves faced with to then allow us to have a back up even to combat the cold and lack of light when required too, it will then leave us come spring to get on with more interesting SS projects to come in our trully ideal Scottish highland idyll


As always i relish your comments


Slanj

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249611 boboff
Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:14 am

Sounds like first step would be to open up the fire place, get it sweped, see if it draws or fills the Bedroom and Attic with smoke. If it does next step liner. Then look at a cheap £200 - £300 woodburner ( which with the right coal, will burn coal and stay in all day / night and cost about £30 a week in coal. It will last about 3 years, in that time investigate alternative water and central heating options.
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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249613 contadina
Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:16 am

We have a Charnwood with a back boiler, which heats radiators elsewhere in the house. We didn't get round to attaching the back boiler and rads for a couple of years, so you can definitely do it in stages. We'll hopefully be adding a towel rail heater to the system as soon as our plumber gets his hands on a second-hand one (payment in olives :iconbiggrin: ). One note about back boilers is that you will need to clean the glass more often, but I find that so long as you do it every day it's really not an issue with a bit of wet newspaper, ash and elbow grease. Also if you go for a back boiler it's worth remembering that unless it's gravity fed you will need a pump, which requires an electrical charge.

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Re: Multi fuel stoves etc

Post: #249618 scotsmart
Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:24 am

Thanks All
Starting to make a bit more sense now, looking highly likely that we may get the system i have envisioned for here in the end then after all! i conclude then that it might be wise to search and buy up parts required as and when we can afford or find them, am i to pressume that the entire system runs through normal copper piping? or can the hot water use the newer style bendy plastic stuff? as in an older cottage it would be so much easier, so, so many questions but at least we have time available to do so, this cottage will be our forever home one way or another..


As for getting the chimney checked/swept i intend arranging that asap and eagerly await the outcome of this as it will essentially herald what route we take next... Is there anywhere i can glean the information that would allow me to better understand just whats involved in fitting a step by step guide maybe that would supply details of whats required and to what degree maybe as thus far ive yet to find anything conclusive, as superb as the info from here is and doubtlessly will be im trying to get a list of what i would require, where it should be sited and a possible what to do, or not do type of thing, save me bugging you guys......

Shame Solar/ground source/ energy products are still out of mosts reach, and equally the companies supplying free/cheap panels wont supply in Scotland as apparently we dont have enough sun to warrant fitting?

Again great helpful information



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