Problems with the new FiTs scheme

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guyd
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Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187111 guyd
Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:25 pm

In case anyone is unaware - the new FiTs schem from the UK government, denies anyone from using 'recycled or reused or refurbished equipment'

And it all needs to be 'MCS accredited' - which is a load of twaddle.

Go look - you might be frightened. Especially, like me - you own an old mill, and want to generate leccy from the wheel - you are not allowed to.

Anyone p'eed off now?

brett53
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187116 brett53
Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:44 am

guyd wrote:In case anyone is unaware - the new FiTs schem from the UK government, denies anyone from using 'recycled or reused or refurbished equipment'

And it all needs to be 'MCS accredited' - which is a load of twaddle.

Go look - you might be frightened. Especially, like me - you own an old mill, and want to generate leccy from the wheel - you are not allowed to.

Anyone p'eed off now?



but that's not stopping you generating leccy for your own use is it ?? - just selling any surplus , and i smell the deft hand of the accursed EU bureaucracy here some where + of course the power companies REALLY don't want people generating their own and then daring to expect THEM to buy it - oh no no no - if too many started doing this it would effect shareholder profits :angryfire:
the validity of ones ideas are best measured by the resistance they attract

and if enough people tell you are WRONG - do it ANYWAY !!

contadino
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187117 contadino
Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:27 am

brett53 wrote:but that's not stopping you generating leccy for your own use is it ?? - just selling any surplus , and i smell the deft hand of the accursed EU bureaucracy here some where + of course the power companies REALLY don't want people generating their own and then daring to expect THEM to buy it - oh no no no - if too many started doing this it would effect shareholder profits :angryfire:


Could you expand on that? Firstly, how has the EU had any input into the scheme? AFAIK, that cock-up is the sole responsibility of the UK government.

Secondly, the whole scheme will be funded by an increasing levy on electricity bills. i.e. it will not effect shareholder profits - it gets paid for by people who DON'T generate any electricity (NIMBYs, for example.)

brett53
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187133 brett53
Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:52 am

contadino wrote:
brett53 wrote:but that's not stopping you generating leccy for your own use is it ?? - just selling any surplus , and i smell the deft hand of the accursed EU bureaucracy here some where + of course the power companies REALLY don't want people generating their own and then daring to expect THEM to buy it - oh no no no - if too many started doing this it would effect shareholder profits :angryfire:


Could you expand on that? Firstly, how has the EU had any input into the scheme? AFAIK, that cock-up is the sole responsibility of the UK government.

Secondly, the whole scheme will be funded by an increasing levy on electricity bills. i.e. it will not effect shareholder profits - it gets paid for by people who DON'T generate any electricity (NIMBYs, for example.)


what you mean the UK government are CAPABLE of coking this up all on their own ??? :shock: :shock: - yea right - unless you had not noticed we are RULED by Brussels - nothing that happens in the UK escapes their beady eye - so input is inevitable

ah so those of us who cant get on the scheme end up paying eh - sounds about right - we don't all have the luxury of waterwheels to hand or land to put windmills and get something back from our "investment" in self sufficiency - we do what we can without thought of others ending up paying for it - sort of smacks of wanting the penny and the bun methinks :wink:

fail to see the relevance of the NIMBIES reference though - :scratch:
the validity of ones ideas are best measured by the resistance they attract

and if enough people tell you are WRONG - do it ANYWAY !!

contadino
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187141 contadino
Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:40 am

brett53 wrote:
contadino wrote:Could you expand on that? Firstly, how has the EU had any input into the scheme? AFAIK, that cock-up is the sole responsibility of the UK government.

Secondly, the whole scheme will be funded by an increasing levy on electricity bills. i.e. it will not effect shareholder profits - it gets paid for by people who DON'T generate any electricity (NIMBYs, for example.)


what you mean the UK government are CAPABLE of coking this up all on their own ??? :shock: :shock: - yea right - unless you had not noticed we are RULED by Brussels - nothing that happens in the UK escapes their beady eye - so input is inevitable


If you read through the consultation documents which are available for all to see, you'll notice that there is nothing in them from 'Europe.' The driver for implementing the MCS scheme, which, presumably is what you're moaning about, is so that the renewables industry can make a killing from the scheme. As per normal, it's wrapped up as something to help people, but it actually just makes money for companies.

It's fairly usual your you Brits to moan about Europe, but in this instance, it's twaddle.

ETA: Of course, you could be talking about the fact that other European countries have had feed in tariff schemes operating for years (all independent of the EU.) The UK is pretty much the last one to implement them, which is why it has the worst take-up of micro-generation of any developed country in the world, and a renewables industry lagging behind every other industrialised nation.

brett53 wrote:ah so those of us who cant get on the scheme end up paying eh - sounds about right - we don't all have the luxury of waterwheels to hand or land to put windmills and get something back from our "investment" in self sufficiency - we do what we can without thought of others ending up paying for it - sort of smacks of wanting the penny and the bun methinks :wink:

fail to see the relevance of the NIMBIES reference though - :scratch:


Yes, if you can't afford your own renewable system, you will be subsidising those that can. The money has to come from somewhere. There are three alternatives:

1. The government pays, using your taxes in the public coffers.
2. The electricity companies pay, and pass the cost onto their customers.
3. The microgenerators pay, in which case the whole scheme becomes self-defeating.

Which would you prefer?

brett53
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187157 brett53
Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:48 pm

ever wondered WHY we Brits are not in to this - its all the petty fogging RULES -( regardless WHO is behind them ) - we don't like being dictated to :wink: - and most of us ( well those interested in such things** ) can see that the aggravation and effort DEALING with all the petty fogging officials just ain't worth the effort - so most just do the stuff for their own use and leave it at that

as to your last question - more a case of which is the lesser evil ?? ( dependent on standpoint ) :thumbright:


** which is probably a fairly small % of the population at this time - but that's what comes of all the doom and gloom merchants - the "scares" we have had over the years ( y'know nuclear war , reds under the bed , mini ice ages . heat waves . BSE , the millennium 2012 etc etc ) - and a LOT of certainly the more mature population simply don't believe in all the green hype or are really not that bothered - sure the young people have embraced it , but that's because they are indoctrinated from a young age with all this "save the planet " stuff - at school and all and know no better - where as those of us who have been around a few years tend to take the latest "end of the world /civilization/ life as we know it pronouncements with a tad more relaxed attitude

its the English way - we don't tend to get too excited about things which may never happen - comes of reading the express as well :lol: :lol: ( you know - stiff upper lip and all that :thumbright: )
the validity of ones ideas are best measured by the resistance they attract

and if enough people tell you are WRONG - do it ANYWAY !!

brian_faux
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187158 brian_faux
Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:49 pm

The new FIT`s scheme is no doubt flawed and skewed but whatever its merits it seems to me deeply unfair (as guy has pointed out) that people utilising old or refurbished equipment (surely the very signature of any green movement) will be disqualified from a fair reward for their efforts. In fact, as the rules are projected at the moment, ANY self-built system will be disqualified on the grounds that it IS self-built. Can you think of a bigger insult to those who have used their own resources to pioneer the use of renewables?

I have started a petition to 10 Downing St to bring attention to this point.
Please look at it, sign and tell your friends: Or tell me why you disagree.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/GreenPioneers/

and here is an example of a system that may be disallowed

http://s990.photobucket.com/albums/af26 ... aterwheel/
Attachments
Dolbantau_Waterwheel_a.jpg
Dolbantau_Waterwheel_a.jpg (103.15 KiB) Viewed 707 times

contadino
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187172 contadino
Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:29 pm

brian_faux wrote:The new FIT`s scheme is no doubt flawed and skewed but whatever its merits it seems to me deeply unfair (as guy has pointed out) that people utilising old or refurbished equipment (surely the very signature of any green movement) will be disqualified from a fair reward for their efforts. In fact, as the rules are projected at the moment, ANY self-built system will be disqualified on the grounds that it IS self-built. Can you think of a bigger insult to those who have used their own resources to pioneer the use of renewables?


Precisely. Additionally, there is already a bunch of regulations that control whether anything connecting to the grid does not damage the grid. Additionally, there are building controls that protect the public (for instance, they will prevent a dangerous home-built turbine* from being operated.) Additionally, there are UK and European safety standards applied to things like solar panels, to ensure they are fit for purpose.

So, the MCS system is crap, unnecessary, and a barrier to greater use of cost-effective renewables.

But that doesn't mean that:

a) it's the fault of the EU, or
b) it's the fault of greedy electricity companies

* That's not to say that home-built turbines are all dangerous, but the rules are in place to stop the use of only poorly constructed ones.

paul123456
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187179 paul123456
Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:08 pm

hello there ,

the solution to all those overpaid pric^&S in Brussels is that aliens come and take over .If possible the aliens
who live ss lives and want us to do so , the all the useless pric#@^$ from Brussels could be composted .

regards ,

Paul

brett53
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187193 brett53
Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:57 pm

paul123456 wrote:hello there ,

the solution to all those overpaid pric^&S in Brussels is that aliens come and take over .If possible the aliens
who live ss lives and want us to do so , the all the useless pric#@^$ from Brussels could be composted .

regards ,

Paul


:lol: like your thinking there Paul :thumbright: - although more "toxic waste"( of space ) than compost maybe :lol: :lol:
the validity of ones ideas are best measured by the resistance they attract

and if enough people tell you are WRONG - do it ANYWAY !!

guyd
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187421 guyd
Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:43 pm

but that's not stopping you generating leccy for your own use is it ?? - just selling any surplus

yes Brett..


But when one has expended a VAST amount of money (equivilant to buying a house) doing a hydro scheme - to be told that you might not qualify any longer as you have used second hand equipment (aka vintage / antiques..) is a little galling.

We know of a local scheme up the road who has spent 4 times what we spent, enough for a small mansion, whilst the system was still under ROCs. This is still in build - and will be comissioned under FITs - but it uses old equipment (leat / sluice etc).....

brett53
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Re: Problems with the new FiTs scheme

Post: #187423 brett53
Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:26 am

guyd wrote:but that's not stopping you generating leccy for your own use is it ?? - just selling any surplus

yes Brett..


But when one has expended a VAST amount of money (equivilant to buying a house) doing a hydro scheme - to be told that you might not qualify any longer as you have used second hand equipment (aka vintage / antiques..) is a little galling.

We know of a local scheme up the road who has spent 4 times what we spent, enough for a small mansion, whilst the system was still under ROCs. This is still in build - and will be comissioned under FITs - but it uses old equipment (leat / sluice etc).....



well with respect - IF one spends a vast amount of money to do a hydro scheme - WITH the expectation of getting a return that's a business investment AND your choice , attendant with all the pitfalls of such ventures - especially financial

my original point is valid - there is nothing stopping anyone using non approved and considerably cheaper gear to generate electricity for your own use only
the validity of ones ideas are best measured by the resistance they attract

and if enough people tell you are WRONG - do it ANYWAY !!


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