Dissapointment

[Wombat]

I have just done the math on our electricity consumption and at around 8,000 kWh per year we are just average. After the work we have put into this place I had hoped for better. The thing driving the figures up seems to be hot water usage in winter. The solar doesn't work as well and Linda has hot baths to deal with backache.

The last bill didn't take into account the self sufficientish laundry so that will help. I am looking at putting more insultation around the hot water tank and maybe buy or build a legendary chip heater, renowned for producing hot water with a few leaves and twigs. (if anyone knows of plans for one please let me know.....)

So, I am unimpressed, but appropriately chastened I am moving forward....

Nev

[Cheezy]

Hi Nev,

Sorry to hear about your energy usage, I think it's an important lesson for us all. Especially if you in Austrailia can't get enough power out of solar...what hope do we have.

Guess that's why the site is "ish", cos it's the fact that you're trying to IMPROVE your usage rather than totally go self sufficient.

And why I like this site, as it's about trying to do a bit, not everything.

It's a bit like the wind energy, it's not economical to run a wind turbine for the masses. They just don't pay for themselves. But that's not the point is it. How much is the reduction of CO2 worth in £'s?.

It's also why our Government have switched horses to microgeneration, as they can't get people to back the wind turbine, so they're hoping that the small people who want to make a difference are willing to do their bit, and sod the fact you're not actually (at the current moment) going to save that much money.

[Wombat]

Thanks Cheezy - a good point, what cost the environment?

Nev

[Millymollymandy]

Hot water is the problem - I've studied our leccy bills and looking at the consumption for peak and off-peak I can see that almost half the electricity used is for hot water. I don't really know what more we can do as we too have reduced usage everywhere else to a minimum!

I'm also very peeved looking at our spending in the last year just how much we spent in the supermarket - having a drive at spending even less from now on.

[Boots]

Nev, do you ever remember that drum water heater that they ran in Grassroots?

No idea how long ago, but I may still be able to dig it out or rustle up a rough diagram of the plans.

I was so impressed by this, that I decided if/when my hot water system ever died (Heaven forbid if I jinx myself with this post ) that I would build one.

It was a rotating 44 that you heated up once a day with heat beads... do you remember reading it? It was plumbed in to the usual bush system (pumped water) I think, but I imagine it would still work with town setups. It involved heating a full drum (which was surprisingly quick), with the idea being you use hot water in one hit once a day... could try digging it up again, if anyone is interested.

[Citizen Smiff]

Hi Nev,
Excuse my ignorance but how did you managed to use 8000kwh? That sounds like masses to me, What are you running?
I thought that electricity was the most inefficient way to create hot water. I take it you have no solar thermal or wood burner.
New to this forum so guess i must be missing something!

Especially if you in Austrailia can't get enough power out of solar...what hope do we have.

I think that PV actually works best when temps are low and insolation high.
For levels of output in UK from a 3.28kwp system

http://www.alternative-energy.co.uk/Dai ... tputs.html

Best of luck getting the kwh and co2 down.

Picture is not me... I have the orange robes but have no hair!

[Boots]

Don't feel too bad Nev.
If I have read my bills right you have halved my usage and I am absolutely convinced that power bills in Aus are an ABSOLUTE RACKET!!!

I have objected to one very obvious quarter a few years back and even the staff at the electric company all agreed there was something very strange going on - BUT it made very little difference to the amount due!

Before moving to the farm, I moved a lot. I moved the same people and the same equipment, appliances etc and the different costs associated with powering the same things, was considerably different in different homes.

When I moved from a place with no solar to a place with solar hot water with exactly the same appliances, my power bills went up!!!

I spent a whole year slowly removing the "suggested causes" (ie. old fridges, any extra freezers, water bed heater, auto washing machine, downsizing bulbs etc.) to the point were I barely had anything on (we didn't need much when my girls were little) and the bill still escalated.

I think it would be safe to say that "scientifically" it is very difficult for me to justify the power usage as determined by the electricity companies here.
Just does not add up, (or down as the case may be).

I knew a couple in the city who revolted and just said "Cut it off!" They truly believed that the power charges were just plain criminal and refused to play along. Without it, they then used their creativity and installed solar shower systems, used gas barbies for cooking on, candles for lighting etc. They had unusual set ups in their kitchen for cooking and bathroom for showering, but other than that the home looked no different, except maybe a bit darker as they closed it in with heavy curtains to keep it cool.

I was impressed with what they did, but the thought of living without my computer and airconditioner (when its really hot) means they continue to get my dollars...

[Wombat]

G'Day Citizen Smiff - The hot water is solar, but electric boosted, mostly used in winter. As as for how caould I chew through all those kilowatts............I'd bloody well like to know that myself!

Boots - Don't remember the article in question but sounds interesting. There is a mob in Qld making chip heaters but they are around $500 and not available until next spring! May have to have a go myself..........

I bought the batts for insulating the water heater today!

As far as your comments about the billing of electricity goes, all I can say is that I suspected as much! I would like to cut it off too, but would face a domestic insurrection...........once the "kids" move out, who knows......

Nev

[Muddypause]

I think you have to view this as 'household consumption'. If you divide it by the number of people it supports, it starts looking a bit better. Consider, also, if you use gas as an additional form of energy.

In the UK, if I've got the facts straight, an average person uses about 2,000 kWh a year in electricity, but considerably more than that in gas (IIRC, about 7-8,000 kWh). This is presumably because gas is primarily used for energy-expensive things like space and water heating, plus cooking too.

If your total energy consumption for you, Linda and the children (how many is it?) is 8,000 kWh, than I'd suggest you're probably on the right side of things.

[Wombat]

Good point Stew!

There are 4 of us and while the stove is gas (bottled gas) we go throgh about a cylinder a year, but I don't know what that is in Kwh!

Nev

[Muddypause]

According to my automotive text book (by Bosch), the LPG (propane) that I run my car on has an energy density of 46.3 MJ/kg. This equates to 12.86 kWh/kg.

If you use one 47kg cylinder (I'm guessing) per year, then you need to add around 600 kWh per year. This will then give you your total energy consumption for 4 people. I guess the only fair comparrison is with the average total to give you a reasonable picture of how you're doing.

[Shelle]

http://www.countryenergy.com.au/interne ... calculator

our electricity company here has this calculator to gauge usage and where to cut the costs of bills ... maybe worth a look? Is pretty accurate to what our bills are at ... right or wrong it is accurate to what we are being charged.

[Wombat]

thanks Shelle!

[Millymollymandy]

the stove is gas (bottled gas) we go throgh about a cylinder a year

I wonder if your cylinders are the same size as ours? About 50cm high/30cm diameter?

There are only 2 of us and we went through one in 6 months until I decided that we would stop using the electric oven willy nilly so it gets used about once or twice a week only, and we also started to use a whistling kettle on the gas (although still use the electric one occasionally). The last gas bottle lasted 4 months.

Trouble is it is really hard to know whether it is a false economy or not. How can you calculate how much your electric kettle/electric oven actually uses?

I just use (what I hope is!) common sense and reckon that doing mashed spuds (20 mins on the gas) has got to be cheaper than jacket potatoes in the oven at 200C for at least an hour. But I could be wrong!!

[Wombat]

Much bigger M3, I think 47kg as Stew mentioned they are about 400 wide by about 1500 high!

Nev