ESSE Range advice

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kazaddress
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ESSE Range advice

Post: #236746 kazaddress
Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:34 pm

Hello people. This is my first post since I stopped Modding on INEBG.

We have finally had an extension in our humble cottage, with underfloor heating. We still have our combi boiler, but we are looking at getting a woodburning range to supply the hot water for it (maybe using a esse centralliser). all the piping is in place, I even have a dedicated heat dump set up... we just need to buy the range and install a flue.

I would love the ESSE W35 but its pricey... so I have been looking at the ESSE WD.

Does anyone have any experience with either of the stoves, or have any advice on if they would be suitable for our set up? we also have a cottager fire stove in the livingroom, so might hook that up to it too!

Looking forward to getting back on here (we will be getting solar panels on the roof soon, and setting up the 100gallon waterbutt to our downstairs toilet) :)
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237561 paul123456
Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:08 am

Hello there ,

do not know what the esse wd and the other is .We have an Ironheart in the kitchen , cooks , makes toast , boiling water for tea ,oven for bread and roast , heats the kitchen and outs a bit into the central heating .Performs good .And it is also
a good sight ,

regards ,

Paul

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237591 kazaddress
Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:15 am

Hi Paul

Currently I have underfloor heating and a combi boiler. I need something that can feed the combi boiler pre heated water during the cold months, and allow be to cook with it (I cook and bake a lot). I have a free supply of wood.

I have space for an esse/aga rayburn range. I have had large copper piping run from where the range would be, all the way to where the combi boiler is.. and then a separate loop of copper piping to a radiator (heat dump).

I am looking at getting an esse centraliser to link the open and closed systems

I have no idea how much it will cost to install it.. and how I would go about linking it all together. I also dont know how efficient a esse w35 is at running the system. or if an esse WD would be suffecient.

this is the setup..

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237592 Annpan
Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:45 am

From what I know I don't think you can pre heat water for a combi boiler :scratch: but then I don't know how this 'centraliser unit' works....

Having said that.... you probably won't need a very powerful model of Esse, since you already have other heating methods that can act as top-up or that this is the top-up for...
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237600 kazaddress
Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 am

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237801 Silas (son of Silas)
Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Annpan wrote:From what I know I don't think you can pre heat water for a combi boiler.


Grant CombiSol devices do exactly that to reduce the gas required by the combi.

Edited to add: Thinking about it, wouldn't a CombiSol be a better option here than a centraliser? The range would heat your tank and the combisol would supply water from it to your taps until such time that the water in the tank goes cold, then it would supply water from the Combi boiler automatically.

Also, have you thought about the downside of the WD not having a summer kit option like the W35 does? 3-5kw of heat in the kitchen in the summer is pretty significant.

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #237891 kazaddress
Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:41 pm

Ohhh thankyou Silas, I had never heard of a combiSol. currently we were planning on not having the esse run in the summer, just using the combi boiler when we needed it (just for a showing in the morning).

how does the combi boiler run the central heating? would it use hot water from the hot water tank? im not sure how the woodburning / combi boiler works for hot water and central heating.... thank you for all your advise, it really is appreciated as I am struggling to work out how this all goes together!

Kaz xx
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #238394 kazaddress
Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:35 pm

just a thought. if we had a thermal store.. and the stove heated the thermal store. would that do the heating and hot water? or just hot water?

I was just wondering if an esse lion heart would suit our needs or not?
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #238465 Silas (son of Silas)
Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:09 am

If you want to go down the thermal store/accumulator route, I wouldn't advise using a wood burning range cooker as the primary heat source for it. The 2 technologies have potentially conflicting combustion patterns.

The burn pattern of the range cooker is that is ticks over on a lower burn until such time as you cook with it or there is a specific heat demand from radiators / hot water. This burn pattern is fairly predictable after a while and you get used to how much wood is needed and at what times.

Using a thermal store is the most efficient way of harnessing the energy stored in wood. If you combine it with a wood burning central heating boiler that ideally has a low-ish heat output to room but a high output to water then the burn pattern is very different. This would be shorter 'harder' burn periods that really push the efficiency levels right up for the stove. Fantastic... for a stove. Not so great for an oven.

For example, the ideal time to fire up a stove to charge an accumulator may be first thing in the morning, giving 24 hours worth of stored heat for water and radiators/ufh. great. The downside is I usually do most of my cooking in the evening,

If you google Esse W35 you will find there is one guy on one thread who moans to heaven and back about his Esse Wood fired range. Mostly he moans about his wood consumption and lack of heat. If you trawl the web for his name, you'll notice 2 things. Firstly, his assumption that a W25 is the same cooker as a W35. It's not. Secondly his installation is hooked into an accumulator. The poor old W25 burns flat-out trying to heat his accumulator, but being only modest heat output to water it munches it's way through wood.

The same guy later pops up saying how much better his replacement wood range is (a Wamsler). What he fails to notice is that the range he replaced his Esse with was a much higher heat output.

My advice would be to seriously consider your options before going down the thermal store route. If you want the benefits of one, then consider ditching the idea of a wood range and pair the accumulator with a wood gasification boiler instead. From a heating perspective the 2 are perfect partners.... But VERY expensive AND you still have to buy a cooker and pay to run it. A good investment to return balance is a higher heat output wood range like the Esse W35 or perhaps the cheaper Stanley Donard. The Donard puts out less heat to water but has a much higher heat output to the room, so reduces the demand on water to radiators depending on the layout of your home.

The next obvious question is why a wood range with water heating is your preference? If your existing combi is oil fired then I can understand the switch. If it's gas, then the payback period will be VERY long indeed. By ditching the existing combi you would save the cost and hassle of the centraliser / CombiSol etc, but you would also add the hassle of having to maintain the fire to heat the house. Not such a big deal on a range that can handle an overnight burn, but if you buy one that will struggle to meet the water demand, you will forever be feeding it logs.

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #239581 kazaddress
Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:33 pm

Hmm. I don't know what to do then.. what is the most efficient thing i can do? I really want a wood burning range as I cook so much, and the esse w35 is supposed to be an efficient burner that burns through the night so you only need to top it up a couple of times a day. I want to keep the gas combi boiler as its new, but gas prices are rising so I was hoping at reducing the amount of gas I use. maybe I should just plan to get an iron heart and let it run the heated towel rail in the bathroom.
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #240349 Silas (son of Silas)
Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:37 pm

kazaddress wrote:Hmm. I don't know what to do then.. what is the most efficient thing i can do? I really want a wood burning range as I cook so much, and the esse w35 is supposed to be an efficient burner that burns through the night so you only need to top it up a couple of times a day. I want to keep the gas combi boiler as its new, but gas prices are rising so I was hoping at reducing the amount of gas I use. maybe I should just plan to get an iron heart and let it run the heated towel rail in the bathroom.


The The iron heart is a fantastic piece of kit and will certainly keep you warm, provide hot water and is great to cook with, but the heat output to the room is just too high for the way my house is arranged. The kitchen would be really warm but the other end would still be cold.

If you can use the radiant heat from eat to good effect, then you won't regret buying one. Make sure to post some photos of it when its in!

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #240353 red
Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:33 pm

Silas (son of Silas) wrote:The The iron heart is a fantastic piece of kit and will certainly keep you warm, provide hot water and is great to cook with, but the heat output to the room is just too high for the way my house is arranged. The kitchen would be really warm but the other end would still be cold.

If you can use the radiant heat from eat to good effect, then you won't regret buying one. Make sure to post some photos of it when its in!


this is why we have opted not to go for the ironheart.. they look ace.. and in our old home which was more open plan, it would have been ideal.. but it will make our current kitchen too hot to cope in... whilst the rest of the house will still be icey

we intend to go with the esse W35 + thermal store route.. so i hope we are not making a mistake...
One thing comes to mind is with the idea the esse will struggle to get the oven warm enough as it is first trying to heat the thermal store, is based on the assumption that the store will be cold. but we plan to keep the esse ticking over all day during the winter (just as our gas rayburn does now), so the thermal store will be hot. Also we plan to stick in solar tubes into the system, hopefully also trickling some heat in - more useful during autumn and spring - and so opening the fire up to get the oven hot should not be such a struggle.

in addition, there is something called a laddomat, which you can put on the woodburner, and use it to allow the stove to heat up before any heat is extracted to the thermal store.

so anyhow... thats our plan. Hope it works

at the mo we are just installing the TS - time and money slowing us down.
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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #240401 Silas (son of Silas)
Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:31 pm

red wrote:
Silas (son of Silas) wrote:...in addition, there is something called a laddomat, which you can put on the woodburner, and use it to allow the stove to heat up before any heat is extracted to the thermal store.


As they say where I come from... 'Bingo was his name-O' If you are going to keep a W35 ticking over then the laddomat is the way to go. Good choice.

The next logical step is zoned areas for day and night with wireless TRV's on the rad's with wireless stats on the wall for each zone (assuming the rad's are fed from the Esse) and you just about hit the sweet spot where wood burning central heating is concerned. The problem with the W35 is the burn rate is controlled by water temperature. By combining old fashioned wood burning with bang up to date radiator valves and multiple wireless thermostats (one for each zone) your Esse only 'ups' the burn rate as appropriate.

Example: A simple day and night zone set-up. Your Esse provides heat to the the rads in your day rooms (dining room and lounge, assuming no rad in the kitchen because the radiant heat from the Esse does that) and also the bedrooms. During the day the thermostat that is in one of the bedrooms is set low, say 12 degrees, whilst the day zone, controlled by the stat in the lounge set at 21 degrees. In the night the setting on each stat flips to say 5 degrees in the lounge and dining room and 16 degrees in the bedroom (I like a cool bedroom)

That way the Esse isn't burning away your logs at night to heat a room that isn't even being used.

Eat your heart out British Gas... welcome to the cosiest central heating anywhere and a bill that would make oil suppliers weep.. :lol:

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #240419 kazaddress
Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:44 am

I wish I knew as much as you guys, you are really helping... ok right so....

How would I link all this up to the combi boiler? I suppose I have a few options.
1. just use the woodburner to heat the kitchen / family room and cook with. (not very cost efficiant as we have to get a stove installed and chimney built)

2. just link the stove to the central heating directly (not great when im at work all day or go away for the weekend as the house/pets will freeze)

3. just link the stove to the heated towel rail, and use it to cook with (again not very cost affective)

4. use "something" to link the output of the stove to the input of the combi boiler with a "laddomat" controlling the heating of "something" if I want to use a stove.

This is the layout of the downstairs if it helps. The office cupboard houses the combi boiler + control units for the underfloor heating (which is zoned study / bathroom / family room-kitchen). there is copper pipe looped between the stove and the heated towel rail in the bathroom.

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Re: ESSE Range advice

Post: #240432 red
Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:44 pm

Silas (son of Silas) wrote:The next logical step is zoned areas for day and night with wireless TRV's on the rad's with wireless stats on the wall for each zone (assuming the rad's are fed from the Esse) and you just about hit the sweet spot where wood burning central heating is concerned. The problem with the W35 is the burn rate is controlled by water temperature. By combining old fashioned wood burning with bang up to date radiator valves and multiple wireless thermostats (one for each zone) your Esse only 'ups' the burn rate as appropriate.



do you suggest a control system?
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