Sourdough 101?

[Jessiebean]

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I am keen to try more "artisan style" breads, sourdough I suppose but I would like an easy one that lovely Ishers have tried and tested...can anyone help me? I normally use an automatic breadmaker so treat me as a total beginner!

[grahamhobbs]

Jessie, you are jumping from the paddling pool to the high dive, but go for it, I'll try to mentor you. You must appreciate in going from using a machine to making artisan bread, you have got to learn all the normal techniques of making bread by hand but especially so because everybodies sourdough is different and therefore it is difficult to give a fixed recipe, you have to learn the feel of the dough.
The thing is sourdough is made with a living piece of dough therefore you can not follow a recipe like you can using dried yeast, which is a standard product. Basically you are making bread as you might normally but substituting a piece of this alive dough (sourdough starter) for the yeast and a proportion of the flour of your recipe. There are basic principles and approaches, but there also many variables and decisions you have to make, try and learn.
The first thing is to make the sourdough starter, this you are going to create and keep alive, and keep by 'feeding' it regularly. To make the starter take 100g of flour and 100g of warm water and mix well in a jam jar with the lid loosely placed on top, put the jar in a warm place. it is better if the water is not heavily clorinated. Any flour can be used, remembering that it is going to make up 10 to 40% of the final loaf.
After a couple of days this mixture will start to bubble away. Add another 100g of flour and 100g of water. Now you are on your way to creating your starter.
At this point you will need to make a decision on the type of starter you wish to keep, but I'll stop here until you have got your starter under way.

[Bikil]

Ooh, I'm going to sub this thread so I can follow along!

[Andy Hamilton]

I've not made sour dough bread before but I know a little about wild yeasts. There are tons of wild yeast floating in the air but there can be areas where there are simply none, so if your starter does nothing then try moving it.

[grahamhobbs]

Andy, the yeasts we are concerned about are actually in the flour already, so moving it won't really achieve anything. If the starter doesn't 'start', it is probably because the water wasn't warm, was too chlorinated or you put the jar in a cool place. If it doesn't happen in 2 or 3 days, start again with warm mineral water and keep in a warm place (not hot, say around 21 - 25degC). You could also try with rye flour as this usually 'takes' more easily (once going, you can convert your starter to any other flour you wish).

Some people have made the starting of the sourdough culture a mystical experience, you put your flour and water mix into the middle of a bag of flour and hang it in a pure forest, others say you need to add grape or orange juice and do other various things. My experience says, just put the flour and warm water in a jam jar with the lid on loosely (perhaps I should explain, once the starter 'starts' it is going to ferment and bubble up with some pressure).

[Jessiebean]

Wow. Ok lets do it. one question though. How big is the jam jar? mine are small and I have a terrible knack of having to transfer things mid mix because my conatiners are too small!

[Andy Hamilton]

Andy, the yeasts we are concerned about are actually in the flour already, so moving it won't really achieve anything.

Fair enough! I had heard that sour dough from different areas can have different tastes, which is why I assumed that it was due to the yeasts.

Could be worth a go. Jam jars ready!

[grahamhobbs]

Ok Jessie, yes you are probably going to have to transfer the mix after the fermentation is underway. I said a jam jar because everyone likes to keep looking to see if it has started and with a jam jar it is easy to see. I find old ice cream tubs, the plastic ones like tupperware, are good, because they come in small and larger sizes, and they fit into a fridge more easily. I usually keep a small one for my starter and a big one for the dough.

Another little mistake was I said you could more or less any flour including rye. If you use rye you will probably need about 150g of water to 100g of flour as rye is more absorbant. You need to create a wet paste.

i suppose I should have said any bread flour, white or wholemeal, and preferably organic and not too old (as it maybe rancid).

Andy you are right in that different places have different sourdoughs, for instance San Fransisco is renowned for its unique sourdough, but moving it from your kitchen to your living room I wouldn't have thought would make much difference to the yeasts that grow in your mix, it's primarily what is already in the flour.

[Jessiebean]

Right, my marmelade jar has the beginnings of starter (white flour)happening, finding a warm place is a bit hard but I might use my easi yo flask with some warm water in it as a Tasmanian winter is not a warm place-Just ask my mushroom kit (5 weeks on- two mushrooms yesterday!.

[grahamhobbs]

Jessiebean, it is summer here so my starter I started Monday night had bubbled up and filled the jam jar by this morning, so it needed refreshing with more flour and water, doubling the quantity each time. So if you started with 100g of flour and 100g of water, add the same again. Then in a couple of days you will need to do it again, again doubling, so now it will be adding 200g of each. In a further couple of days you will need to refresh it again, doubling the quantities, 400g of each. You will rapidly fill your kitchen if you continue like that, so at some point you have to throw away half (or give to a friend) before the next refreshment.

[grahamhobbs]

Jessiebean how is your starter going, have you refreshed it once yet? Mine is going very vigorously, so I'm having to refresh every day.
The idea of building up the starter, and if necessary throwing away half and then refreshing, is that we are trying to establish a strong, stable and vigorous starter that we can begin to use for bread making. Once we start bread making we will be using a proportion of the starter for the bread making and replenishing it with the same quantity we have taken out so maintaining the same amount of starter all the time.

[Millymollymandy]

Well I never knew sourdough starter didn't have yeast in it!

And please can someone explain what 101 has got to do with anything?

[Green Aura]

It's an Americanism, MMM.

Anything 101 is an introductory course - first year college courses for example e.g. Philosophy 101.

[Jessiebean]

My starter is going well, I have been finding warm places for it and I have refreshed it so next time it will be the 200g of each added. I will have to change the container today as it is about to come out the top of the marmelade jar. At which stage wilI be able to use it?( I have mentioned beore that patience is a virtue I am working on and yet to acquire haven't I?) the cat is most impressed with the starter and thinks he would like to eat it. He has odd tastes for a cat.
Thanks for this help Graham!

[Millymollymandy]

It's an Americanism, MMM.

Anything 101 is an introductory course - first year college courses for example e.g. Philosophy 101.

Well I've learned 2 new things on this thread! Cheers.