Sugar

[greenorelse]

although vegans tend to develop vitamin and mineral defficiencys, most commonly vitamin B12

Interesting; do you have links to peer-reviewed research on that?

a vegeterian diet including dairy and eggs is the healthiest diet to follow)

Interesting; do you have links to peer-reviewed research on that?

[demi]

although vegans tend to develop vitamin and mineral defficiencys, most commonly vitamin B12

Interesting; do you have links to peer-reviewed research on that?

a vegeterian diet including dairy and eggs is the healthiest diet to follow)

Interesting; do you have links to peer-reviewed research on that?

it is widly recognised that high plant food diets are healthier than high meat diets.
meat is a carcinogen, red and processed meat being the worst offenders.
fruit and veg inhibit cancer cell growth.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/6/1402S.short

vegans dont consume any animal products, which is where vitamin b 12 is found. therefore thye can become vitamin b 12 defficient and have to take a suppliment.

http://cpj.sagepub.com/content/25/4/219.short

this last one doent directly relate but i dont have time right now to do an indepth search.

[demi]

this is what i was looking for regarding vitamin b 12 defficiency in vegans:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/3/5/375.short


and this is regarding high meat diets and cancer rates:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... aid=795504

also this:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 2/abstract


do you need any more?
i dont really get why you're challenging this as it is common knowlage, even to the lay person.

[greenorelse]

Thanks but slightly irrelevant - many (most?) vegans are aware specifically of B12 issues and, given that around half a billion children are malnourished, it's unfair to single out an extremely rare case of B12 deficiency. A reasonably and sufficiently varied diet of any sort will include several B12-fortified foods.

So neither of your claims are therefore fully addressed. What 'mineral deficiencies'? How is consuming dairy more healthy than not? Links to independent proof, with controlled surveys, would be welcome.

[demi]

ok, i admit, it is possible to get all the essential nutrients while on a vegan diet.
it is more my opinion then that it is better to obtain those nutrients from natural food sorces rather than fortified and supplimented ones.

here they compare vegan, vegeterian and meat diets:

http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... 22a6df2e32


so vegans may have to take vitamin B 12 suppliments or else eat foods which are fortified with vitamin B 12, but if you just eat eggs and/or drink milk you shouldnt need any suppliments.

but too much meat is still bad for you, which was my main point.

[greenorelse]

There is a school of thought that it is possible to obtain B12 from 'natural' sources. After all, you need less than half a teaspoon for a lifetime's supply. It runs like this:

Some foods eaten straight from the wild without processing or washing (which is how our ape predecessors might have obtained it)
In minute amounts carried in 'unprocessed' water (but not that obtained through regular sterilising procedures such as public mains)
In certain rare plant foods (try here and here)

It's worth remembering that B12 is not a product of animals - it is a product of certain bacteria in the presence of cobalt. Therefore (a) added B12 does not involve the exploitation of sentient creatures and (b) consumption of animal products cannot justified on B12 grounds.

Apologies for going off-topic. Please carry on.

[demi]

ok you do that. im sticking to my hot chocolate ;)


you havent by any chance heard of a forum called '30bannanas a day' have you?

[Sky]

Everything in NZ is sweet too

[merlin]

Well I don't know, everything in mederation, and that includs moderation. I'm sticking to my usual diet of stuff we grow, like veggies, goats, chickens, wine and my very favorite, Marmite (b12), yum

[demi]

me too, apart from the marmite, yuck!

[Susie]

me too, apart from the marmite, yuck!

Demi! You just won't leave those controversial issues alone, will you? .

[merlin]

Can't be controversial, says it's ok for everybody on the label, label say it, must be true

[Odsox]

Now that I too have diabetes I am amazed (and slightly perplexed) at the sugar added to food ingredients. Baked beans we all know about, but did you know there is sugar in bouillon cubes, sugar in Oxo cubes, sugar in fish sauce, sugar in peanut butter and sugar in mayonnaise ?
Admittedly it is in very small amounts, but why is it there ?
I'm pretty sure this is all relatively a modern trend, peanut butter for instance USED to be just peanuts, oil and salt, and all the cookery (old) books that I have none list sugar as an ingredient in mayonnaise recipes.
Not that it bothers me particularly as I make my own peanut butter and mayonnaise, but it seems that sugar in all it's forms is insidiously creeping into just about all food items.

[Durgan]

Now that I too have diabetes I am amazed (and slightly perplexed) at the sugar added to food ingredients. Baked beans we all know about, but did you know there is sugar in bouillon cubes, sugar in Oxo cubes, sugar in fish sauce, sugar in peanut butter and sugar in mayonnaise ?
Admittedly it is in very small amounts, but why is it there ?
I'm pretty sure this is all relatively a modern trend, peanut butter for instance USED to be just peanuts, oil and salt, and all the cookery (old) books that I have none list sugar as an ingredient in mayonnaise recipes.
Not that it bothers me particularly as I make my own peanut butter and mayonnaise, but it seems that sugar in all it's forms is insidiously creeping into just about all food items.

http://www.durgan.org/URL/?AXHQN Sugar: The Bitter Truth

I saw this some time ago, and it is still bothering me. HFCS- High Fructose Corn Syrup

[gregorach]

I'm pretty sure this is all relatively a modern trend, peanut butter for instance USED to be just peanuts, oil and salt

It still is if you buy the right one...