destructive/ wild toddler

[crowsashes]

right now im pulling my hair out i dont know what to do with my (almost) 3 year old . hes growing more and more destructive. first it was the wallpaper in his room, within 3 weeks of it going up it was ripped down by him. now theres the whacking the plants with sticks. tipping cleaning stuff on them, pulling the leaves/fruits/flower of whatever he can. throwing stones at windows the stones things is an obsession he WILL NOT leave them alone where ever we are he ends up with a pocket full of stones and will throw them at anything dumb enough to bein the way he will not sit still ever. i cant take him out anywhere because of the tantrums going into shops, going the 'wrong' way, not going on a bus, not allowed in water/ puddles. refusing to walk full stop

now ive tried everything, i tell him the plan before i go out - still tantrums going into shops, just cant avoid it though. i sit an play games with him at set times in the day ( as i have to get on with stuff) and stick to routine but he already answers back, shouts kicks and screams at the most random things. hair brushing well anything head related is a nightmare. ive done things nicely. tried various techniques over the last six monthsand itsgetting worse.

my health visitor is useless and to get another would mean changing doctors again. shes already investigating possible aspergers but just not doing enough! it runs through his dads side of the family and with all his irrational behavior ive asked repeatedly for a lot of help! so many times ive been told to send him to nursery but i cant afford to ( free place starts september)

im frustrated as a sibling has all the help she can get because of her social worker ( long story ) and she just throws it back at them and is biding her time till her little one is of the register it seams to me the only way to get help or even a referral to someone who has a clue is if i do something wrong.

all i seem to be doing is running round after the LO and i havent had a break since december and then it was messed up as i didnt get to get home till midnight and had to rush out early ( 7am) to pick him up the following day becasue of an inconsiderate sister.

the 5am starts are just making it worse and with it so hot he wont sleep till gone 10.

think im going to scream

[Susie]

No advice (sorry, absolutely no clue) but hugs. It does sound like you're doing a really good job, whether you're seeing benefits at the moment or not!

[sarahkeast]

Hmm, I teach Autistic kids of that age and some of the behaviours sound similar [probly wouldnt have said, but as you are already persuing the Asperger link you know a bit] some of the behaviours will be attempts to communicate, is he verbal ? needs and anxieties are very sensory and stress related, eg the route rigidity, head sensitivity, throwing for attention [sew up pockets] Could you not get an appointment with GP ? or try local Infant school that he will feed into.

Consistent and predictable activities or routines should help, giving warning of changes, low verbal input, dietary awareness on your part [journal it, evidence will be invaluable when you do get help]

Hang in there, September is getting closer. Or get yourself a good box of wine !

[homegrown]

my wife use to work in childrens mental health and she says if you can take him to a pyschiatrist as he probably needs ritalin to calm him down, but they probably cost a fortune over there too. But we are with you in thought and heart. We haven't had an unbroken nights sleep in three years and our two youngest (almost 4 and almost 2) have broken so many TV's DVD and video players as well as toys books and the odd bit of wall paper as well.

Keep your chin up, well pray for you and your family

[crowsashes]

thanks guys.

homgrown, i want the help im just not sure drugs at the moment are what he needs. id worry that taking something to alter aspects of his behavior will affect the good bits, like the fact he will sit and play with woodlice for hours ( letting one crawl on his hands) or chasing grasshoppers round the garden. it is almost as funny as watching the cats do it

hes smart. he has nothing wrong speech wise but he will talk to me and sign it at the same time. most of them a bit clumsy but recognisable ( as much as i have learned any how)

it just his obsessions that are making life hard. he cant go through a door or past a gate without making it slam/ close etc.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Sounds like a fairly definite Autistic spectrum guy - particular physical sensitivity and strange obsession with no understanding of social rules.

[Jessiebean]

I don't know anything abour autism spectrum in toddlers but if you find out how to stop the behaviour please let me know. I have a three and a half year old and a 21 month old and they WILL NOT SLEEP or BE QUIET at all, they scream and demand food and drink or talk and throw things 18 hours a day.
Unfortunately it seems that our boy are at the "very bright and spirited" end of normal. Cripes. How do others cope? My migraines won't settle down with this going on..
Unfortunately I don't think that having no understanding of social behaviour or physial sensitivity or obsessions is indicative of any disorder in toddlers. We haev been told that is just how they are at this age and we just have boisterous "clever ones".. errrgh. Anyone want to trade some healthy clever children for a quiet slightly sickly one. or a garden gnome or old cat?

[crowsashes]

oh anything for a quiet night and a lie in! hes usually really good with sleep! just with the sun pouring through his room from lunch time till dusk hes room get very hot and i cant open the windows as he climbs up the radiator onto the window ledge to chuck stuff out them so hes awake because of the heat. winter its lovely i dont set the heating to go on in the morning i do it when i get up so he stays in bed , probably helps its still dark at7am too! hell sleep 7- 7 usually.

[grubbysoles]

Goodness, crowsashes, that sounds like really really hard work. I have 2 young daughters but, although they have their moments, reading what you and jessiebean have on your hands, you've just made me realise what an easy ride I have compared to what other mums are going through. Well done for such massive patience, I don't know how I'd cope.

Big hugs, and I hope you manage to get the help you need asap.

[purplephoenix]

Hi Crowsashes - sorry to hear about your struggles with your boy, it must be exhausting. I was just looking at your hot bedroom / early light thing. During the day, have you tried keeping the curtains drawn - it should help keep alot of the heat out. Get some blackout material (or if you're feeling flush some blackout curtains) - even just pinning it up at the window at night would keep alot of the light out. As for the open window - not sure what sort of windows you've got, but is there any way you could rig up some netting or similar to stop him chucking stuff out? That way you could keep the window open, but protect passers by (or put something in front on the radiator so he can't climb up??). He's probably not sleeping well if the room is really hot. I would try the GP route tho', to see if there is a possible diagnosis - it would make things easier. Good luck. xx

[citizentwiglet]

Crowsashes, would it help at all if I told you that I've been there with Ellis? And that it is all completely normal? Please don't be diagnosing him with things right, left and centre - you'll spend your life worrying. I was convinced that Ellis was on the spectrum, he was just beyond the pale as far as behaviour was concerned. I think I spent a good year of my life in tears because of the odd behaviour' (including the stones thing, along with having to hit every lamp-post and check every gate we passed, along with being a tad slow on the verbal communication side of things) and, of course, the tantrums. Screaming, wailing, kicking, punching, scratching tantrums.

It was awful. But you know what? They fizzled out almost as quickly as they came. Yes, we do still get tantrums, and nagging, and not sitting still, but hey - you know what? We were probably the same at that age. They are little children in a big, bright, exciting and often terrifying and confusing world. They have all the same sensations as we have, but they lack the ability to understand how to process it and reference it to the outside world, it is all about them. They have no concept of how their actions affect others just yet.

I think we are too quick to apply our adult understandings, borne through years of experience, to people that have only lived for 36 months or less. They are not little adults, they are overwhelmed and are trying to make sense of this big, scary world as best they can. You ARE doing all the right things, love. In time, and through a process of learning what gets nice things, and what gets 'punishments', plus socialisation with other children and just 'growing up' mentally, he will start to figure out what is OK and what isn't.

I'm sorry to whoever mentioned the word 'Ritalin', but I find that awful. To put a child no bigger than a baby on a drug to suppress their natural urges - sorry, that's not on. I have no issue in the careful use of the drug on older children who should have sussed out 'behaviour', but to suggest it for a child who is acting like a lot of completely normal 2 year old boys is inappropriate.

If you get a load of people telling you 'My son wasn't anything like this', they are i) lying ii) have the perfect child (aye, right), or iii) Suffering from CRAFT syndrome (as in Can't Remember A Fecking Thing).

[DeneciePie]

Oh boy, did your post ever bring back memories! Believe it or not, you will someday look back and feel a twinge of loss for these days of tiny tots and their foibles. Not that it isnt exhausting now. If worst comes to worst, put up some wire mesh to prevent window tragedies and just get on with life the best you can. Its hard to feel like Mom-of-the-year when your little one is flopping on the floor in public, but they nearly all go thru some variation of it before they go off to get socialized in kindergarten. My "little monster" is 35 and has three little people of his own now, but there was a time I was sure I would lose it and beat the little guy to death he was such a challenge! Surprisingly, he was diagnosed as gifted in school and is now the best Daddy ever to his bunch.
Time Changes Everything.....Eventually

DeneciePie

[Mrs Moustoir]

crowsashes - I read your post last night and thought, when I have a moment in the morning, I'll post about my son - and blow me, Citizen Twiglet has posted almost exactly what I was going to say! First of all - it does get better! My boy is seven now and although he is still "different", he is now starting to "conform" in some ways which makes his (and my) life so much easier.

Unfortunately, conformity is what society expects and anyone who doesn't fit in the jelly mould is deemed a problem and as CT says, adults apply their own standards/expectations to very small people who are just learning about the world. Can't tell you the number of times I heard the phrase "that child needs a good hiding" or "have you thought about ritalin?"

Here, the emphasis is very much upon behavioural therapy arranged via the school. Some French doctors believe that disruptive behaviour (eg hyperactivity) is a reaction to a child's environment, stress or anxiety. Basically, oversensitivity often caused by body chemistry. My son overreacts to many situations - he has exceptionally acute hearing and cannot cope with noise or crowds of people (at the shops or playtime at school). He sees a psychologist once a week who works with him on self control and understanding the way he fits into the world. He loves music and when his teachers finally got him to sit still, and concentrate, they discovered that he is exceptionally good at maths. He is proud of this and it has boosted his self esteem no end.

I know it is difficult, but you must try to be patient with your boy and try to be calm. I was lucky in that my boy always slept well and you can cope a bit better if you've had a decent nights sleep.

Hope you can get the support you need. In the meantime, try and give your boy as many chances as you can to run about and let off steam away from anything breakable and judgemental adults! You're not alone and its a shame all us mums with wild children can't meet up and let them all have one big noisy, uninhibited bundle!!

[Mrs Moustoir]

Forget to say - CT - CRAFT syndrome..lot of that about!

[Green Aura]

I've sent you a pm but other things occurred to me. I'm sure you're already aware of them but it might be worth thinking about.

Please note that I'm certainly no expert on any form of autism - I'm not even certain that I agree that such a spectrum even exists (except in experts minds) and if it does why is it on the increase these days? It seems to me we're looking harder to find compartments for things that don't fit an ever-shrinking norm. Labels can be so much more damaging than the so-called condition.

It's difficult situation honey and my heart goes out to you.

As a starter I would gradually cut out all added sugar (throw the bag away) and no sweets, sugary breakfast cereals or processed foods with sugar added. I wouldn't stop it all at once but phase it out (my daughter's ex had been diagnosed with ADHD (another 21stC disease ) and when he stayed with us his jumpiness, irritability and other symptoms disappeared after a day or two - at least until he got severe sugar cravings after about a week and came back from the shop with Cola and cheesecake ).

Keep all his food as simple and fresh as you can grow/ afford etc. And stop burgers/ sausages etc unless you make them yourself - they contain so much crap, I'm sure they're part of the problem.

The other main thing I would target is to help him make a little ritual which will keep him safe, no matter what the scenario. It might be something very simple like tapping his nose and saying "I love Dr Who" three times . The important bit is that he practices it, is confident it will keep him safe, that you remind him to use it before his panic kicks in and that it's something he can do in public without making himself feel stupid (he may need to keep his safety net for many years). The aim behind it, of course, is very simple. If practiced and utilised it stops the adrenaline production in its tracks -> no panic sensation -> less shouting, screaming etc. You both could have a bit of fun working out what will do it for him too