ARRRGH Children please please give me advice!

[Jessiebean]

Yes we've all turned into serial killers because we were smacked when we were little.

I sure know some who look like they could be very nasty pieces of work and their parents were very into the understanding psychological sort of parenting which is good for some kids, unfortunately what these girls are up to would make your hair curl lots of emotional manipulation and lying to the extreme (pretending they are being attacked and screaming for the police when their dad is picking them up to take them home) so I guess it is NOT one size fits all with parental approaches.
MMM are you trying to tell us something?

[oldjerry]

If must be possible for anyone to set boundaries,through penalties and rewards,RIGIDLY applied,without resorting to violence.My kids were (one still is) constantly testing the boundaries,but like the others(11 and 6) he is learning that when mum and the old bloke are happy with his behaviour,life is loads of fun,and when he does something unacceptable it aint.It's all increasingly difficult with the pressures people are under to keep a roof over your head etc. It's just too easy to resort to smacking,and if they dont respond favourably what then?..slap harder?..more often?
I've come across as judgemental (which for anyone who knows me would be hilarious) but that's not intentional,but violence towards children must be wrong,''It never did me any harm''..... well if it meant you're prepared to do it yourself, it did.
Would you hit your children if they were big enough to hit you back?

[Jessiebean]

and yet... no tangible alternatives offered, it has been explaine dover and over agian to my eldest child that we all have a horrible time when he does the wrong thing, that no-one has fun when he makes work for us and although he is not constantly behaving terribly when he does so he will do it whether or not we are there and whether or not we have set boundaries rigidly or not so where the solution to avoid all smacking whilst retaining a semblence of liveability in the house? I don't like smacking, I don't think it is par for the course but the children don't respond to the other techniques I have been offered and take the opportunities provided to laugh at us and do what they want!

[Rosendula]

It amazes me that people are prepared to judge others on their actions without offering a practcal alternative-

Jessiebean, you asked for help, we offered it. TheGoodEarth, Oldjerry, myself and others posted advice and encouragement on page 1, before this turned into a debate about hitting children. The fact that you chose to ignore or reject our help does not mean it ceases to exist. What I find disheartening is the complete lack of gratitude you have shown. OK, maybe some, maybe all of the advice was unsuitable, but we tried to help and I would appreciate it if you would stop saying we didn't. If your kids are as bad as you say, perhaps you need to get proper, practical help from professionals in your area.

[Millymollymandy]

We're talking about smacking not 'inflicting violence' but maybe some of you see it as the same thing? I don't. We knew our place and yes I was smacked until I was into my teens but I would never have hit back. It used to make me laugh cos my mum would hurt her hand more than it hurt me . We were all taught our Ps and Qs and were well behaved and did not speak to grown ups until they spoke to us. That's not to say we weren't naughty occasionally otherwise we wouldn't have got smacked for it! Everyone I know from my generation thinks the same re smacking so guess it's dependant on what era you grew up in.

Jessie I don't understand your comment? You have edited your post since your earlier reply! Just pointing out that being smacked when you are a kid doesn't automatically turn you into some sort of violent creature. I am quite the opposite and find it hard to even kill 'bad' bugs.

[Millymollymandy]

Darn I do wish this forum would show when new posts pop up when you are in the middle of typing!

[Rosendula]

So what is the difference between smacking and inflicting violence? Is hitting kids with a wooden spoon just smacking now?

[Millymollymandy]

In my view that's not violence! I think a smack with a hand would hurt a lot more than with a wooden spoon! Now flip flops, they did sting. But we all have differing views on what is acceptable or not and I don't have children through choice and am talking about a long time ago but I won't change my attitude on smacking (having been on the receiving end I really don't see what the big deal is), just as I imagine those of you who don't like smacking will either.

[boboff]

See this is all Big Al's fault!!!!

I think the majority of people will physically chastise a child, however those wonderful people who don't have such a smug argument.

No as a parent I can not justify hitting my child, when I do I reallise it is me that has failed, the angry slapping shouting Mum in the Supermarket makes my blood boil, voilence is not the answer...... BUT

It works when used in small amounts.

My Mum was extremely abusive towards me, fish slices, wooden spoons, full on clogs, hair pulling spitting in my face, my Dad later on when I was a teen was not adverse to punching me etc etc. But I know this much, what has hurt me more than anything was when Mum called me a useless waster, told me that I was a Nobody, and would never be anything, when she stopped coming to say sorry afterwards, thats what really hurts.

Oh and also I think this was a bit unfair, as all of you guys except "good earth" made very valid and thoughtfull posts, and Jessie's post in reply to good earth was taken offence to by others, when in reality it probably should not have done.

[TheGoodEarth]

(having been on the receiving end I really don't see what the big deal is)

MMM, my wife was smacked on the backside but her brother was smacked in the face - no big deal?

[boboff]

, my wife was smacked on the backside but her brother was smacked in the face - no big deal?

Right and that was the only symptom of poor parenting was it?

Everything else was wonderfull, all apart from this?

You can't isolate one aspect of poor parenting, and say that it's wrong.

It's also extremely unfair to be so sarcastic when we are not in a possition to judge the whole situation.

Any way, how is the weather up there in that Ivory Tower?

[TheGoodEarth]

Weather poor boboff but a white Xmas at least.

Obviously not the only part of poor parenting. My wife's relationship with her parent's is still not great, the hitting was just part of the overall angry househoild she grew up in.

In no way can you condone hitting someone as no big deal. If I came up and hit you in a pub, is that no big deal? So why should hitting a child be?

BTW what is sarcastic in my post?

[Milims]

Please guys try to take a step back from this and lets not get so heated.
Parenting is the hardest job anyone can do and it doesn't come with a manual! Every child is a differnt person just as every parent is a different person and what works for one may not work for another. I don't think any of us would condone and out of control violent attack on child whether physical or emotional - believe me both are equally as bad - physical attacks may leave visible scars but the scars left by emotuional violence go unseen and are a take a lot more healing.
That said, would any of us stand back and watch our child cause themselves harm when negative reinforecement such as a flick or tap on the hand would prevent it? You may say that we should reason with a child while they are poking at a socket with a knife - but is there really time for that? Children are determined and often devious creatures (and it's not just the 2 year olds!) and sometimes lessons have to be learned very quickly, for their own safety.
As to the other kind of smacking, I'd say that most of us at some stage have been on the receiveing end of it - I know that on at least on occasion I had the wooden spoon treatment. At that time it was more commonplace and therefore more acceptable. TImes have changed and now it is seen as unnecessarily violent and quite frankly I agree. However, how do you deal with a child who is hell bent on destruction? I have already said that I have smacked my child - but only after everything else failed and that the "ceremony" was more painful than the smack - which was really no more than a short round of applause on his buttocks!
It seems to me that Jessiebean is reaching the end of her teather and has reached out for help, support and advice before things go wrong. And well done to her - it is a brave thing to do. What we have offered is based on our own personal experiences - some good and some bad, but all valid. It's now up to JB to decide her path and if she needs further help and advice - or even a more indepth explanation of any particular method I'm sure we'd be happy to offer. It may be that she chooses to use some of the techniques offered or to seek advice from a more professional source. I think that what ever path is chosen we will all wish her the best of luck and let her know that we are here when needed.

[boboff]

Glad the weather is nice.

I feel for your wife, I do appreciate that these things can sometime never be put right. As you say it was part of the problem, the violence.

The difference between what you say about a Pub is fairly obvious and simple, if you did that you would be breaking the law, and as far as I know reasonable physical chastisment of someone who you love and wish to teach boundaries to is still not against the law, however much the wishey washey liberals and Daily Mail reader would have you believe it is.

I am not a proponent of physical discipline, but especially under 5 I think it has a place, after that because they should respond to other discipline.

Both my children laugh and joke at the phrase " DO YOU WANT A SMACK" with the standard reply of "OH YES PLEASE" But then that is another part of my parenting, I would rather them have boundaries, but have fun, know they are loved, but know that if they fail to do as they are told EVENTUALLY there will be physical punishment, I am lucky in that we haven't got to that point in well over 4 years for the boy, and never for the girl........ so I think it works, many other approaches do as well.

Oh, and I meant the comment "no big deal" was sarcastic, if you ignore the "?" which I admit I did for my own evil and selfish self interest! Better slap my arse and call me fanny...... That'll learn me!

[Susie]

which was really no more than a short round of applause on his buttocks!

OK, you've made me do it. Relevant cat video on youtube.

(I'm pretty sure the cat's enjoying it).

Only joking and now backing carefully out of thread. Hugs and merry christmas/ yule everyone .