Please help me Pagan Parents!!!

[mrsflibble]

Sophie is 5, conventionally schooled and being raised by myself; a pantheist pagan and her daddy who is a born again atheist.

my problem probably sounds very trite and over the top, but think; if you were christian and your child came home and did the full muslim praying to allah and mecca on his/her knees, I'msure you'd be as desturbed as I am over this.

Sophie has started insisting we say grace before meals, and because i was shocked she then said "well lets make wishes instead" and proceeded to bow her head, clasp her hands and wish to jesus that all of her good dreamscouldcome true.

To say I was horrified would kind of paint me in a bad light. I have NO problem with her converting to anything when she is old enough to make that decision, but for now she's being raised open minded, but I am scared that her schooling is getting in the way of this open mindedness and beginning to brainwash her into christianity. I know brainwash is a harsh word.

Her school is a secular community primary, but the head teacher is very christian herself. I have already been into school once or twice over the religion issue and they keep saying they're inclusive etc, but where muslim, hindu and jewish children are allowed some leeway in assemblies etc, sophie isn't and it's bothering me.

how do I show sophie more about my own beliefs? how do i give non biased religious education at home? do i have any rights to complain as a member of a severe minority in this area?

sorry this is all very long and sort of quickly written, but I am actually feeling very upset; like someone has stolen my baby.

[niknik]

That´s awfuyl.............

I have no idea, but wI ould have thought that there must be reason for complaint!

For a child to come , and talk about various religious practices, is 1 thing, but to actually come back practically " converted" is outrageous. home .

Mine tho never christened, were brought up as christians, ( Cof E). but Catholicism being the main thing here, well they wanted to become catholics... but that was mainly when they saw the great presents the kids got for 1st communion! ( cash gifts mainly. easily 3 or 4 k. and that´s not the rich kids either)

At that age it is brainwashing.........

you cant just lt it go.it is way out of order.....

[Annpan]

I would put your concerns in writing and request a meeting with the head mistress that your religious beliefs should be respected. I really think you need to speak out.

I complained about a prayer being said before 'snack time' at LOs playgroup and everyone thought that I was a weirdo... "what's the harm in teaching your child to thank God" well, um.... it isn't our belief Even those who said they weren't religious saw no problem in it. But the committee saw sense and withdrew the prayer.

I call it making a wish too. I guess you just need to let Sophie know what you believe in. Even if you could give her your version of thanking Nature / Mum and Dad or whatever...

[StripyPixieSocks]

Along with putting your complaint in writing I'd contact the Pagan Federation and ask advice from them as they will know more about the legal side of things and may be able to help you approach this problem from the right direction.

To be honest I feel religion of all kinds should be kept out of schools.

[Silver Ether]

There are rules that you can stop them pushing stuff onto Sophie .. a friend had hers with drawn from Christian based classes and assemblies ... Pagan fed would definatly be the ones to advice.

But from your own point of view I would be careful saying that she must not do it ... cuss you know what kids are like ... I always went with the line I don't like and would rather yo didn't ... but I won't stop you ... and talk about it .. if you let Sophie see its bothering you a lot she could try it out to annoy ... Kids are very manipulative ...

[sarahkeast]

How about going the other way, show her all the different ceremonies, rituals and activities of lots of religions ? Even at 5 she should be old enuf to grasp the fundamentals

[boboff]

Or just go along with it, and it will pass. With tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and other rituals which we play along with, sure "pretending" to say a prayer isn't the worst you can do. Sorry if I don't get it, but to me it sounds like a story line from Viz PC parent brigade.

[Zech]

I can understand why you're so upset, but I'm with Boboff on this one. Don't worry, it will pass. When she's old enough to think more deeply about this, and ask herself whether she agrees with her parents or her teachers, there'll be no contest ;)

In the meantime, to let her know what your beliefs are, how about using this as an opportunity - after all, she's bringing up the subject of beliefs, which gives you an opening. When she wants to say grace, for example, you might say, "You can say grace, Sophie, but I don't believe in Jesus, so I'm not going to."

I went to a very Christian primary school and didn't start questioning it until I was about eight (which horrified my friends!) Apart from a few years of evangelical Christianity in my teens (after my mother died, though I swore there was no connection) I am now pretty firmly convinced that my dad was right all along.

[becks77]

Hi Mrs F,
Not trite at all, if you feel strongly about this why shouldn't you have the right to raise concerns. The fct that you are in a minority, should have no bearing on the situation at all, at our college we have policies about equality and diversity and a lovely policy called Every Student Matters, I believe this is countrywide and might be very useful in your situation,(it is slightly different to every child matters)
But as a parent myself I have tried to give my girls a well informed unbiased religious upbringing, we enjoyed going to loal cof e for a while, I am now looking at Paganism, I was brought up as quaker but I think the main is to give loads of info to your LO and keep your own beleifs strong, so she cn understand how important this is to you but also it is not the only religion and she is free to choose. From what you have said this is possibly where the school is failing. Talk to the school express your concerns, they should listen to you.
Best wishes

[snapdragon]

I reckon one of the problems is Paganism is still not recognised as a religion in this country, due in some part to Pagans inserting specifics such as 'druid' or 'wiccan' in the census. There's a push now for all Pagans to put 'Pagan' (dash(-)) and then their own path name, which may help official recognition of all pagan paths.

[mrsflibble]

thanks everyone. I will be talking to school- AGAIN- and I'm also plannin some extra home educ\ation on the religious side, not only my beliefs but everything from judaism to the flying spaghetti monster.

I might even see if the gurudwara in Grays will let me take her for a visit.

[greenorelse]

To be honest I feel religion of all kinds should be kept out of schools.

+101%

[red]

this is the problem with religion being in schools.


I did what my mum did for me in the same situation. I told my son that people believed lots of different things and in time he will make his own mind up about what he believes in. Then of course he asked what i believed .. and i told him.

if you and your OH feel strongly about not saying 'grace' then you cannot allow her to insist. you say.. we dont do that in our house.

this is a good opportunity to teach your daughter to think for herself. let her know, without putting the teachers down, that they dont know everything, that alot is choice and matter of opinion. when she gets a bit older, you can expand and show that your choice is a matter of opinion too.

We had no choices when it came to primary school.. the only ones available were CofE - and i really disapprove .. the gov allows this to happen cos the church partly funds the schools.. and they do it so they can get to little children and tell them the facts as they see it. its wrong imo and religion should not be something covered in schools, but can easily be covered by the family outside of school hours.


But, saying that, im kinda glad my son got to experience it. My son is learning disabled, and nearly grown up now. he and I have different views on faith, but I'm ok with that. I have - despite his disability, been able to show him it is alright to question it, and make your own mind up. I dont think it is any better to force my own ideas either.

I don't for example, believe in any kind of afterlife, but he does, and promises to meet me there just so he can say 'I told you so'

[mrsflibble]

Sorry if I don't get it, but to me it sounds like a story line from Viz PC parent brigade.

I actually found this comment quite offensive, I read Viz and know EXACTLY who you are on about!!!! I know poeple like that, and I'm not one lol!!!


I am, however, a Real Ale Tw*t.

[clanpowell]

I think I am right in saying that Relgion has been banned in schools in France for this very reason. Even down to the not allowing children to wear items of religious clothing/jewellary. This is despite the fact that on whole they are a more relgious bunch than we are (mostly RCs but we'll try to let them off)
What you have to remember here is that the Christian church has a history of indoctrination, so it's followers think nothing of "enforcing" their beliefs on others, or highjacking other's beliefs for their own ends. Timing of christmas, easter, April fools day and halloween to name only a few.
I say fight back, when they do the christian festivals at school, teach your daughter about the pagan roots of the festival. Write to the goveners, the council, the local paper (anonymously if you want to ) and your local relgious leader and see what they think.
I to am a Real Ale Tw*t - Solidarity sister!!