GE nightmare

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homegrown
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GE nightmare

Post: # 257105Post homegrown
Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:39 am

here in New Zealand, the New Zealand Australian Standards authority is planning to sign off on the release of GE corn and soy see http://www.gefree.org.nz and an american judge hes upheld Monsanto's side that could lead to courts agrreing that food purity measures such as GE Free are against free trade.

so before the trouble starts I am putting a submission to my local council to make the Hurunui region GE free, fingers crossed.
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The Green Man has returned as the living face of the whole earth so that through his mouth we may say to the universe, "We are one."

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257108Post demi
Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 am

there have never been any effects on humans from eating genetically engineered crops.
this is a difficult subject as it is not only our health at stake, theres also the potential damage to the natural enviroment to concider.
but the benifits of developing disease and drought resistant crops for places like africa where they are haveing anual fammines would be outstanding.
i think as long as they can prove its not harmful, its definetly something that needs to be done to feed the millions that are starving in the world.

either that or we could just leave them all to die out, there are too many people on the plannet anyway, survival of the fittest and all that :?
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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257129Post Green Aura
Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:22 am

It must be nice to have such a simplistic view of the world and its problems.

Droughts in Africa? Tinker with genes with a few plants - heaven forbid that we stop growing flowers for the Western market that take up huge swathes of fertile (and somehow irrigated despite the drought) land and puts large amounts of money, in very few hands. Same with beans and other veg only destined for Europe and the US.

While we're at it we can use a whole continent as guinea pigs because despite your assertions that no humans have been harmed there is growing evidence that Roundup Ready and other GE crops are harming bee populations and contaminating other crops. Because no-one has dropped down dead from eating GE soya doesn't mean there aren't long-term or cumulative effects from all the extra biocidal products heaped on them - all, of course, petrochemical based, so they're really good for us!

BTW , nice to hear from you homegrown, where've you been? It's been a long time. :hugish:
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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257132Post demi
Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:33 am

i said there hasnt been side effects for people eating gm food, but there is still the effect on the enviroment to concider. all things need to be taken into concideration before they go ahead and release somthing like this into the enviroment.
if it is proven safe then why not.
nature mutates producing new varieties all the time which effects the ecosystems, everything compeats for survival, species die out every day and new ones evolve, thats life. just because the scientists are doing it along side mother earth doesnt instantly make what the scientists are doing completly wrong, but it certainly needs to be done with causion.
Tim Minchin - The Good Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

'If you just close your eyes and block your ears, to the acumulated knowlage of the last 2000 years,
then morally guess what your off the hook, and thank Christ you only have to read one book'

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257137Post oldjerry
Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:56 am

Green Aura wrote:It must be nice to have such a simplistic view of the world and its problems.

Droughts in Africa? Tinker with genes with a few plants - heaven forbid that we stop growing flowers for the Western market that take up huge swathes of fertile (and somehow irrigated despite the drought) land and puts large amounts of money, in very few hands. Same with beans and other veg only destined for Europe and the US.

While we're at it we can use a whole continent as guinea pigs because despite your assertions that no humans have been harmed there is growing evidence that Roundup Ready and other GE crops are harming bee populations and contaminating other crops. Because no-one has dropped down dead from eating GE soya doesn't mean there aren't long-term or cumulative effects from all the extra biocidal products heaped on them - all, of course, petrochemical based, so they're really good for us!

BTW , nice to hear from you homegrown, where've you been? It's been a long time. :hugish:


All this....All the time...

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257148Post contadina
Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:33 am

demi wrote:but the benifits of developing disease and drought resistant crops for places like africa where they are haveing anual fammines would be outstanding.
i think as long as they can prove its not harmful, its definetly something that needs to be done to feed the millions that are starving in the world.
Trouble is, despite the assurances of the agri-chemcial industry the only benefits GMO's bring is to the agri-chemcial industry. The majority of GM crops are used to feed animals in the west, and yields have not proven to be higher than conventional crops, in fact they've produced 5-10% lower yields. Early reported successes are already reporting yield drag as well as the creation of superweeds, which require ever stronger chemicals.

By creating sterile seeds, moreover farmers are required to buy them year in year out. I suggest you read the Global Citizens' Report on the State of GMOs published last year, which found that GM crops promote superweeds, food insecurity and pesticides.

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257151Post demi
Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:44 am

same goes for mono-culture of anything though.
diversity is best, but its more difficult to manage on large scale farms producing food for the mass market.

what really in incane though it that western companies invest on africa and sustain huge crop farms of coffee or whatever which do brilliantly in the desert because they have acsess to deeps wells for irrigation, but the neibouring villages are all starving to death as they dont have water for their crops or animals. madness. youd think the western companys would pay for wells for the locals as thanks for taking their land for western use.
Tim Minchin - The Good Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

'If you just close your eyes and block your ears, to the acumulated knowlage of the last 2000 years,
then morally guess what your off the hook, and thank Christ you only have to read one book'

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257153Post contadina
Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:56 am

demi wrote:same goes for mono-culture of anything though.
diversity is best, but its more difficult to manage on large scale farms producing food for the mass market.
Which will be impossible if the GMO's have their way. GM crops transfer their modified genes to plants of the same or closely related species and once released they cannot be contained or recalled. For me the biggest problem with GMO's is the impossibility for them to coexist with non-GMO crops, owing to contamination. Be careful what you wish for Demi because a world, where we can no longer seed-save and where we are all reliant upon GMO's is, quite frankly, terrifying.

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257155Post demi
Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:05 am

as i said before, extream causion is needed when dealing with nature.
and GMO is in no way without its problems,
but i believe it is possibe to create somthing benificial that is safe to use that wont damage the ecosystems.
Tim Minchin - The Good Book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

'If you just close your eyes and block your ears, to the acumulated knowlage of the last 2000 years,
then morally guess what your off the hook, and thank Christ you only have to read one book'

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257195Post Green Aura
Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:26 pm

There's those pesky belief systems again!
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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257200Post JuzaMum
Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:32 pm

contadina wrote:
demi wrote:same goes for mono-culture of anything though.
diversity is best, but its more difficult to manage on large scale farms producing food for the mass market.
Which will be impossible if the GMO's have their way. GM crops transfer their modified genes to plants of the same or closely related species and once released they cannot be contained or recalled. For me the biggest problem with GMO's is the impossibility for them to coexist with non-GMO crops, owing to contamination. Be careful what you wish for Demi because a world, where we can no longer seed-save and where we are all reliant upon GMO's is, quite frankly, terrifying.
Well said - boo hiss to GM crops :angryfire: (That's my belief :icon_smile: )

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257256Post Jandra
Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:04 pm

There's nothing inherently wrong with GM. People against GM may have their own or their child's lifesaving medication produced by genetically modified bacteria. I don't believe for a minute that any of those people would rather have their child die than use evil, dirty, awful GM technology.

Having said that, I agree that the combination of pesticides and GM crop like round-up is bad. It scares me.

I'd rather have more research into other ways of growing crops more efficiently to deal with the growing world population than let GM crops loose in the world. But I don't want to be responsible for people starving when this could have been prevented by GM crops, either.

It isn't simple and I think that the only people who have an overly simplistic vision of this problem are the ones who don't think any further than "GM is bad" or "GM is great".

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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257260Post trinder
Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:59 pm

Oop sorry I cocked it up again :hugish: tried to edit but should have deleted. How do I manage to post twice?

Sort of wanted to tone it down and so say Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do

tee hee
Last edited by trinder on Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257261Post trinder
Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:00 pm

what really in incane though it that western companies invest on africa and sustain huge crop farms of coffee or whatever which do brilliantly in the desert because they have acsess to deeps wells for irrigation, but the neibouring villages are all starving to death as they dont have water for their crops or animals. madness. youd think the western companys would pay for wells for the locals as thanks for taking their land for western use

As far as I am concerned this brings us to the whole "belief" about self sufficientish. Just separate the words.
Living a life in a way that reduces dependency and gives individuals the opportunity to say No, my need for "that" is not so great so I will do without. Your premise here is that organisations have a regard for the people in the next village!
If we really cared about these people rather than cared about encouraging them to put all their effort into producing a "cash crop" for us we would be focussing on what they could grow in order to achieve independence.
Well that s what I think anyhow xx
Last edited by trinder on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GE nightmare

Post: # 257264Post The Riff-Raff Element
Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:15 pm

contadina wrote:
demi wrote:but the benifits of developing disease and drought resistant crops for places like africa where they are haveing anual fammines would be outstanding.
i think as long as they can prove its not harmful, its definetly something that needs to be done to feed the millions that are starving in the world.
Trouble is, despite the assurances of the agri-chemcial industry the only benefits GMO's bring is to the agri-chemcial industry. The majority of GM crops are used to feed animals in the west, and yields have not proven to be higher than conventional crops, in fact they've produced 5-10% lower yields. Early reported successes are already reporting yield drag as well as the creation of superweeds, which require ever stronger chemicals.

By creating sterile seeds, moreover farmers are required to buy them year in year out. I suggest you read the Global Citizens' Report on the State of GMOs published last year, which found that GM crops promote superweeds, food insecurity and pesticides.
Total agreement. I know that there exists a GM strain of rice that is rich in vitamin A which MAY be of benefit in aiding areas where deficiency is a problem, but I can't rid myself of the feeling that this may be a "humane" Trojan Horse being wheeled out by agribusiness so that they can go "See! Told you this would benefit mankind, etc."

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