What next? Going to school with no shoes?

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The Riff-Raff Element
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What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262843 The Riff-Raff Element
Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:32 am

OK - it is a survey of teachers who belong to the Guardian Teacher Network, so we probably need to take into account a degree of bias (i.e. lying on the survey because they have a political axe to grind), but even so this struck me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... -breakfast

We see similar stories in France, of course.

It's interesting that most respondents cite a lack of parenting skills as being at the root of this with poverty taking 4th and 5th. Are parenting skills getting poorer? I seem to remember when I was growing up in rural Norfolk - not exactly the richest corner of Britain at the time, though the Chelsea Tractor Brigade have changed that a bit - children were fed, clothed & shod as the priority, probably because of the shame of being seen to do otherwise. Is that it? Are we becoming shameless?

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262850 Green Aura
Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:55 am

Although the problem's probably getting worse, it's not a new phenomenon. Before I left Greater Manchester they'd set up breakfast clubs and were reporting better behaviour/increased attention span in the pupils.

I remember articles, at the time, bemoaning the fact that kids were being given a quid and told to buy their breakfast - a bag of crisps and a can of something sugary and fizzy - on the way to school. If that quid's now not available, well :dontknow: All families will have different needs and priorities, I don't know if shame can come into it for some.

This !"£$%^& ^$%*^$^ government would happily see many shoeless - mebbe it's them as has no shame (spoken in the voice of Tony Capstick).
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262856 gregorach
Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:07 am

Well, in my case it was because my mum left for work at 4:30am, and I was lousy at getting up in the morning. I would always prioritise an extra 15 minutes in bed over breakfast. Still do actually...
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262859 chickenchargrill
Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:23 am

A couple of my friends have done the same when they've had pupils who aren't getting enough food at home :(

I don't understand it. Even at our poorest, the kids got fed. Both my girls go to Breakfast Club before school, only costs 50p for the hour (£5 per week for both) and means they can get a lift from our house to school.

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262862 trinder
Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:43 am

Chickenchargrill
Both my girls go to Breakfast Club before school, only costs 50p for the hour (£5 per week for both) and means they can get a lift from our house to school.[/quote]

This is a little confusing. You give the girls breakfast them they go to breakfast club? Is it a social thing? I can see lots of parents taking up the option because it's there not because they need it.
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262863 boboff
Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:44 am

In reality though if the parents send the child to school hungry on a regular basis I am sure there are other very serious issues with parenting happening as well.

Umm all this "when I were a lad" stuff's a bit much though, we did get free milk when we were kids, that stopped.

There is no excuse, a bag of Cornflakes is 26p in the value line, and milk 30p a pint, so 15p for breakfast per child at home, Toast and Marg, 4p a slice, it's not money or time or anything to do with government, it's about the lazy, stupid, welfare backed Idiots that are so pissed or stoned they wouldn't be fit to feed a Dog.

The school ours go to does breakfast club, but it's for 15 minutes, you have to go with them, and the food is crap and expensive.
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262866 chickenchargrill
Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:06 am

trinder wrote:Chickenchargrill
Both my girls go to Breakfast Club before school, only costs 50p for the hour (£5 per week for both) and means they can get a lift from our house to school.


This is a little confusing. You give the girls breakfast them they go to breakfast club? Is it a social thing? I can see lots of parents taking up the option because it's there not because they need it.[/quote]

Sorry, I meant before they started going to breakfast club, we always made sure they had something.

No, I don't give them breakfast before they go, unless they're pleading starvation. ;) It is a social thing as well, they do lots of crafts and have a fruit and veg patch that's just looked after by the kids who go to Breakfast Club.

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262872 Mustardseedmama
Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:05 pm

boboff wrote:In reality though if the parents send the child to school hungry on a regular basis I am sure there are other very serious issues with parenting happening as well.

Umm all this "when I were a lad" stuff's a bit much though, we did get free milk when we were kids, that stopped.

There is no excuse, a bag of Cornflakes is 26p in the value line, and milk 30p a pint, so 15p for breakfast per child at home, Toast and Marg, 4p a slice, it's not money or time or anything to do with government, it's about the lazy, stupid, welfare backed Idiots that are so pissed or stoned they wouldn't be fit to feed a Dog.

The school ours go to does breakfast club, but it's for 15 minutes, you have to go with them, and the food is crap and expensive.


It's odd to me how many of these same parents have plenty of money for flat screen T.V.s, X-Box, and steroes in their cars that rattle your windows as they drive by.
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262882 boboff
Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:02 pm

In it? Like?

They also have Pay Day loans, and no Job, have been involved in an accident at work that they got compensation for, and no job, they had PPI loan insuance and got that refunded, but no Job, were charged excessive overdraft fees and got them back, but no Job, always on the incapaicity, have a carers allowance, do work for cash, but no job, been on Jeremy Kyle, eat out more than me, have more holidays than me, better Camera's, Phones, Ipods, Ipads, but no Job.

I wouldn't swap, but the kids will grow up the same, which is a shame.

How does it work in the States, we in the UK seem to think there are no beneifts in the States, and everyone walks round with Major Illnesses as they can't afford Health care, but then I read that the US spends more per head of population on "free" health care than we do in the UK? I never understood that?
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262885 gregorach
Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:50 pm

Did I stumble into the Dail Mail website by mistake? I see a lot of baseless generalisation going on here... Like I said earlier, I usually went to school with no breakfast, not because we couldn't afford it, but because my mum left for work at 4:30 am every day (six days a week) and I couldn't be bothered making my own. And I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one in that sort of boat... Lots of people don't feed their kids in the morning because they're already at work (or are on the commute to it).

My dear old hard-working mum would kick your arse to hell and back. Not everybody can afford to have one parent at home to look after the kids (remember, not every family has two parents), or to choose a job that fits nicely around school hours.
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262887 oldjerry
Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:02 pm

We were happy in our shoebox.....then some bloody hippy recycled it.......

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262892 MKG
Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Yes, gone are the days when Mum stayed at home while Dad went out to earn a living (well, almost gone). And yes, there are loads of reasons why kids should be reported as arriving at school hungry (some genuine, some unforgiveable, some untrue).

My gut feeling is that it is always possible in a functional family of any description to feed the kids. Hard, maybe, but possible. If a family is so dysfunctional that the kids are not fed, then the parent(s) should not be parents. In fact, my gut feeling goes so far as to say that compulsory sterilisation, in such cases, wouldn't go amiss.

Whatever the case, whatever the reason behind hungry schoolkids, I fail to see it as a function of the education system to be responsible for it. Why not bus drivers? I'm sure they see loads of hungry kids. Shopkeepers (in whose establishments the little tykes sometimes buy their fags with their dinner money). Employers who insist on their staff starting work early. Whoever - it's always someone else's responsibility, isn't it?

My mother was a single mum (through none of her own volition) in the 1950s. She would have DIED rather than send us out with no food in our bellies, and she was absolutely strapped for cash. I sort of feel that she's a prime example.

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262893 gregorach
Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:36 pm

MKG wrote:If a family is so dysfunctional that the kids are not fed, then the parent(s) should not be parents. In fact, my gut feeling goes so far as to say that compulsory sterilisation, in such cases, wouldn't go amiss.


It's a bit late by that point, isn't it?

MKG wrote:Employers who insist on their staff starting work early.


My mum was a postie. You want to try explaining to the entire nation why they're not getting their post until the middle of the afternoon? I grew up in the country, so lots of other kids parents worked in farming, and the cows aren't really open to negotiation as to when they need milking. And there's a lot of people who need to be at work in order for everyone else to get to work, and a lot of other jobs that require working shift patterns... Plenty of places need staff 24/7, or early deliveries, or whatever, and I don't think it's fair to blame the people who take those jobs for not being around when their kids are going to school - especially not when they'll end up on the sharp end of all this crap about how the unemployed are sub-human wasters who should all be lined up against a wall and shot if they don't. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... Sure,it would be great if everybody had the luxury of working typical office hours, but that's simply never going to happen.
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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262895 Ellendra
Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:53 pm

boboff wrote:How does it work in the States, we in the UK seem to think there are no beneifts in the States, and everyone walks round with Major Illnesses as they can't afford Health care, but then I read that the US spends more per head of population on "free" health care than we do in the UK? I never understood that?



I've noticed that perception, thank you for finally questioning it.

In the US there are multiple programs, providing just about every kind of assistance a poor person might "need". And I put "need" in quotes, because the poor here sound much like the poor there, big screen TV's, speakers that rattle the sidewalks, designer purses, lobsters and prime steaks at the grocery stores, free school meals (3 meals a day in certain areas, but at least 2 in every public school), free treatment at clinics and hospitals, even fertility treatments or plastic surgery if they get the right doctors to sign off on it, new cars every 2 years, . . . . I could go on for ages, and these are just examples given by friends I know who work in the Social Security department and see this with their own eyes every day.

Heck, when I was working as a cashier back in college, I got to where I could tell at a glance who would be paying with EBT (also known as food stamps). They were the ones with their carts loaded to the brim with nothing but beer and junk food, while their kids mouthed off at everything that moved. I saw it with my own eyes every single day. And who was paying for their $400+ of junk food every month? Me, because I actually worked and thus had to pay taxes.

Sorry if I sound a bit bitter. I work hard to barely scrape by, so it grates on me to see people paid to do nothing. Doubly so when it's my taxes that are paying them.

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Re: What next? Going to school with no shoes?

Post: #262896 Ellendra
Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:58 pm

gregorach wrote:Well, in my case it was because my mum left for work at 4:30am, and I was lousy at getting up in the morning. I would always prioritise an extra 15 minutes in bed over breakfast. Still do actually...



Same, but my folks solved that by making sure there was something that I could grab as I was going out the door.


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