jets and the jetstream

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gdb
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jets and the jetstream

Post: #263855 gdb
Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:34 am

just been reading an article which claims that the vast increase in air-traffic, in the last decade or so, is most likely the cause of our now errant jetstream.

by all accounts, this pollution - deposited as it is at high level in ever increasing amounts - has had more affect on ice-melt in the arctic than any other pollution....

and in what becomes a vicious circle, that ice-melt causes the arctic to warm up even faster.

and that warming up means our jet-stream starts to loop-the-loop in an ever more erratic way.

so we can all expect more extremes in terms of weather: more snow, more cold, more downpours and, conversely - when the jetstream twitches in the other direction - more droughts, more heat and so on.

in other words, climatic chaos.

as we'll find it harder and harder to grow our own stuff to eat, now is THE VERY BEST TIME to become as self-sufficient as possible!

and to those who doubt it - the next time you fly ryanair, sit back for a moment and consider just how much your children (not to mention your grandchildren) will thank you for causing this almighty climatic cock-up! :salute:
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263923 jim
Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:10 pm

Dear gdb,

Like you I've heard that the misalignment of the jetstream is causing the current, chaotic weather - floods in Europe, heatwaves in the US - and wondered just how long it would be before people started making the connection between the unsustainable, Western lifestyle and the weather phenomena we are witnessing. It's not just the jet engines, there's industrial pollution too and overconsumption too.
Yeh, it's going to get harder to grow our own, rotting crops in the fields are going to put food prices up this year..... but you should see the slug damage to my veg. The almost constant downpour has incereased garden mollusc numbers exponentially, anyone else experiencing this problem? (Apologies to those in the North and West who must have seen theirs drift away in the floods.)

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263924 Odsox
Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:19 pm

jim wrote:Yeh, it's going to get harder to grow our own, rotting crops in the fields are going to put food prices up this year..... but you should see the slug damage to my veg. The almost constant downpour has incereased garden mollusc numbers exponentially, anyone else experiencing this problem? (Apologies to those in the North and West who must have seen theirs drift away in the floods.)

I made a decision 3 years ago that I would grow just about everything under cover. I now have 2 polytunnels, 2 greenhouses and a conservatory and apart from fruit, the only crop I'm growing outside this year is a row of maincrop peas.
I did wonder at the time if I was maybe being stupid, but so far I'm not regretting my decision one bit. There is no way I could be self sufficient in veg without them.
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263925 Zech
Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:30 pm

jim wrote:The almost constant downpour has increased garden mollusc numbers exponentially, anyone else experiencing this problem?


Oh yes, and when the rain stops and I venture outside to pick them off the strawberries, the midges eat me alive. It's a conspiracy, I tell you! :lol:
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263926 grahamhobbs
Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:07 pm

Odsox wrote:
jim wrote:Yeh, it's going to get harder to grow our own, rotting crops in the fields are going to put food prices up this year..... but you should see the slug damage to my veg. The almost constant downpour has incereased garden mollusc numbers exponentially, anyone else experiencing this problem? (Apologies to those in the North and West who must have seen theirs drift away in the floods.)

I made a decision 3 years ago that I would grow just about everything under cover. I now have 2 polytunnels, 2 greenhouses and a conservatory and apart from fruit, the only crop I'm growing outside this year is a row of maincrop peas.
I did wonder at the time if I was maybe being stupid, but so far I'm not regretting my decision one bit. There is no way I could be self sufficient in veg without them.


As I wrote on another thread, no I haven't had a big problem with slugs this year, in fact the biggest problem has been inside my polytunnels. Outside, where I grow most of my veg, I believe the slug population has been declining despite not using slug pellets and the such like. My beans outside have been hardly touched by slugs, but some inside have been almost stripped. Outside I lost a short row of carrot seedlings and later a few pumpkin plants. Inside the carrots have been eaten even when they had managed to grow quite big. 2 gherkin plants were eaten on being planted. Basil and french marigolds have also taken continuous hits.

Outside I keep grass paths well mown, don't tolerate weeds or damp shady spots, harden plants off well before planting out and mulch with well rotted horse manure or municipal compost. And I have just realised a potential difference, in the polytunnels I use my own compost, well rotted but from slow cool heaps - which may contain slugs eggs or is just preferred by the slugs.

Certainly outside I am convinced that something in the cultivation of the soil is either increasing the resilience of the plants or decreasing the slug problem.

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263929 Odsox
Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:59 pm

I may have given the wrong impression here, it's not the slug problem I'm referring to but the general awful weather.
The tunnels were dosed this year with nematodes and that has worked wonders, and hopefully with the restricted access that the tunnels have, the slug population will take some time to re-establish.
No, it's the cold wet and windy weather that makes me glad I have the greenhouses and tunnels, without them I would never have raised the crops that I have. I did wonder if I was wasting my money when I got the first tunnel 6 years ago, but the decision to get a second one 3 years ago was really a no brainer after I found just what a difference the first one made.
Now with the weather actually deteriorating from 5 years ago, I know I made the right decision.
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263934 The Riff-Raff Element
Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:05 pm

St Swithun's day this coming Sunday (July 15th) - the obseravtion that the weather then sets the weather for the following 40 days is due to the tendency of the jetstream to stay where it is from mid-July to end-August. Down here we watch out for St Medard (8th June) which has the same basis only we're more southerly and so the jetstream retreats more early. That and a new moon on the 18/19th appearently mean we're going to get a heat wave, which doesn't help the UK I appreciate. I watch with interest.

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263935 demi
Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:54 pm

We are well and truly sweltering here! 50 degrees celcius was recorded in Skpoje city center yesterday! We are up in the mountains so it was a slightly cooler 46 degrees here. I'm spending all day trying to cool the room down with a fan which is just circulating the hot air, and if i open the windows to try to make a draft its like getting hot air blasted from an oven!
Its supposed to rain by next week. Lets hope, we need the rain!
Last edited by demi on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263936 Deblah
Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:55 pm

yup I agree, during my uni course I even found a journal stating that its the jetstream thats being messed up - so there is even some scientific evidence out there to back it up.
from what I gather, lots of people only focus on 'global warming' which as you say isnt necessarily the case.. its all about the extremes! the more we pollute, the more varied weather we are going to see. its not like we will be able to grow more in Britain because its warmer, we may be able to grow more tropical fruit in some areas, but I dont think the change in weather will really be to our advantage. The weather will also be more extreme, with more floods (like weve been seeing recently) happening more often with even worse consequences.
I sometimes dont like to think about the future because of this, and the majority of people are just so unaware - or maybe they just dont care what type of world we will leave our children!

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263943 dave45
Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:41 pm

How do we know this is not just a "normal" crap English summer? Since I cleared my jungle and started growing crops 5 years ago, the weather is not materially different from the previous 4 crap summers... Assigning "causes" to the output of such a chaotic system as weather or climate is a fools game - you can't prove it one way or the other.

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263951 boboff
Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:09 am

I agree with Dave.

It's just Weather, weather changes, memories serve you poorly, it was always hot in your youth!

Polutants don't help the planet, but this can come from Volcanos and other natural sources.

This weather is mingin' though.
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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263955 oldjerry
Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:03 am

I don't care what's causing it anymore,I'm just bloody sick of it..!

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263962 Deblah
Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:32 am

I get it dave, Its not that I get angry at people that dont think climate change is happening - I understand that people generally like proof before they will change their opinions, but it sometimes concerns me that what if getting proof will take too long, or will be too expensive (when we could definitely be spending it on other things)

How I like to think is: what if it is happening? (because as you say, it might not be) How would i act then? we might not have proof it is happening, but we dont have proof its not either... myself? id like to be cautious!
And even if it isnt happening, the way we are living now, wasting resources, well thats bad for the environment anyway, whether it is causing climate change or not!

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263988 The Riff-Raff Element
Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:44 pm

Deblah wrote:
How I like to think is: what if it is happening? (because as you say, it might not be) How would i act then? we might not have proof it is happening, but we dont have proof its not either... myself? id like to be cautious!
And even if it isnt happening, the way we are living now, wasting resources, well thats bad for the environment anyway, whether it is causing climate change or not!


I would, in general, agree with your position. The time to be moving towards a more sustainable future needs to be while we still have the capital in the ground, not when we've run out.

Apropos the jetstream, I suspect we've been here before. It moves about in observable pattens, which is why we have these old saws about the weather on certain dates being a fair guide to the next month and a half. Predicting from one year to the next or one decade to the next and understanding the reasons behind those preditions and human impact upon these is another kettle of fish. Personally, if I had any influence on the decisions whatsoever, I would be treading a cautious path until the science was unequivocal one way or t'other.

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Re: jets and the jetstream

Post: #263997 boboff
Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Climate change is real, to ignore it is absolute folly.

However no one really knows what will happen with our climate, the term "global warming" was a bit rubbish really as it isn't correct on a micro climate basis.

Still we have gone from 3 dry winters to the wettest Spring Summer since records started, if I wanted rain all summer I would have moved to Ireland!
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