Is it thieving or salvage

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Andy Hamilton
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Is it thieving or salvage

Post: #46913 Andy Hamilton
Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:50 am

FOr the benefit of those who have not seen the news lately - some of a ships load has run ashore in the UK and people are helping themselves to the booty that has run ashore. Is this theft or are they helping (despite for selfish reasons) with the clean up process?
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Post: #46916 pskipper
Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:04 am

Not sure, I think that it doesn't count as salvage/seawrack because its washing up so close to the ship and is obviously the ships cargo. If these things were washing up in cornwall with identifying codes damaged beyond recognition then I think there would be more of a case of finders-keepers. (Still I'm not sure that the govenment would think the same)

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Post: #46918 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:29 am

well..........having watched Whisky Galore, I feel sympathy for the "looters" - if anyone "owns" the goods now, it will be the insurance companies - having been stitched up like a kipper by various insurers over the years, I can't find a great deal of sympathy for them! :wink:
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Post: #46921 Stonehead
Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:45 am

It's theft. Salvage is when you recover it, then offer it back to owner for recompense and reward.

I don't like insurance companies (or many other corporations like supermarkets), but it doesn't mean I steal from them. They may be lacking in principles and bend/break the law at times, but that's no excuse for people to suspend their principles and bend/break the law.

That's not to say that you can't go to some effort to recover as much stuff as possible, seal it up in a warehouse, and then demand suitable recompense before handing it back. That is allowed and is why salvage rights exist - it encourages people to save ships and cargoes that might otherwise be lost.
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Post: #46925 Shirley
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:14 am

I agree with Stoney!

Supposing I drop my shopping... it scoots about all over the floor, apples and onions rolling this way and that... I would hope that people might help me to collect it up and give it me back rather than shout whooppeee and grab it all up for themselves :D
It's not in the same league, but I'd give a big thank you... and if there was something in my shopping that the 'rescuer' might like I'd give it to them.
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Post: #46927 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:19 am

In law it is indeed "theft" if you don't declare what you've found, but I would contend that most insurers are indulging in legalised "theft" by their crooked dealings, and is one of the reasons for a great many of the public viewing them as "fair game"! :wink:
Which brings up the crux of the matter - in a deeply amoral society, where government lies to us constantly, and actively supports companies who do the same, can you blame the public for "taking a leaf from their book"?
As I said, I can't find it within me to condemn them - I feel the public are much wronged, and for them to grab a "windfall from the sea" is only human nature! (if they know it's insured) :dave:
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Post: #46929 red
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:27 am

its theft.
radio 4 had some poor woman on who was watching her stuff being nicked on the telly - personal possessions that were being shipped to her..family heirlooms, photographs.. the people are breaking open intact containers and strewing the stuff everywhere looking for something good. There are people taking tractor loads of goods such as nappies and shampoo away - this is not for their own use.. this is to flog at some car boot sale.. betcha. someone even had a whole motorbike!
I was sympathetic when a guy went out with his rowing boat and brought in an empty oak barrel - makes sense to me - but then it got greedy.
the enviromental inpact is serious - I live in Devon and that brings it all the more home to me. this area is a world heritage site there are already oil covered birds being brought in,and they have yet to get the majority of the oil off- board.. some of the goods are hazardous from cleaning materials to pesticides, and then people are coming from far and wide drivingfrom as far as Basingstoke in one case! just to get something for free. - it still belongs to someone and I have trouble believing they have come so far to 'help'

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Post: #46930 Wombat
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:27 am

I understand your point Martin, but that is a very slippery slope to start down. Who knows what you could justify, taking the argument to it's logical conclusion......... :wink:

Anyway, doing the same thing makes us as bad as them! My mum and dad brought me up to have a bit more moral fibre than that! :mrgreen:

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Post: #46931 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:35 am

please, don't get me wrong - "looting" is wrong, and illegal, and I don't condone it, the point I'm trying to make is that it is government and big business that has stood us all on that slippery slope! :wink:
(who can blame a few people if they then slip?)
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Post: #46933 red
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:42 am

ha Martin - the notion that its ok to do over the insurance or indeed the goverment is flawed
firstly you don't have a moral leg to stand on if you act them same as them and secondly *they* dont suffer - they pass it on to *us*
if you dont care about the insurance company - then dont complain about premiums going up. and if you dont care if the government or the tax man gets done - remember they dont have any money of their own - that's *our* money
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Post: #46936 Wombat
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:48 am

Martin wrote: the point I'm trying to make is that it is government and big business that has stood us all on that slippery slope! :wink:
(who can blame a few people if they then slip?)


sorry mate, I don't buy the "they made me do it" argument. We all stand accountable for our own actions.

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Post: #46937 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:50 am

if you read my posts carefully, ~I'm not saying what they did was "right", and agree that "an eye for an eye" leaves the whole world blind! BUT in the present climate, I can understand WHY they did it! :cooldude:
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Post: #46939 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:53 am

and just to further confuse things - take a skip as an example - many people go "skip diving" with a clear conscience - it's stuff that's been "thrown away", and their reasonable view is that they are recycling! - is that not theft? :?
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Post: #46940 Wombat
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:55 am

I quite cheerfully skip dive, but I still ask first......
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Post: #46943 Martin
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:58 am

I think we have an answer - Nev for prime minister! - I would welcome that approach throughout society! :wink:
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