I'm sure that's not the point

[Uller]

I'm not really uncomfortable with the concept of profit relating to green issues - no more so than I am with anything being done for profit at least.

I guess it is a light green/dark green thing - recycling is great, but even better is to refuse or reduce packaging in the first place. Having a solar panel is great, but even better is to reduce your total power consumption, rather than just shift it to the cheap time.

Having said that, I don't have a solar panel so I can hardly judge!

[GeorgeSalt]

Ahh.. but if we can assume that they're using no more energy than they were before they installed the panels (ie. they haven't decided to use the panels to subsidise additional energy consuming gadgets) they will have reduced their nett consumption.

[Skippy]

For them to have reduced their overall consumption they would need to be using less electricity than before they had the panels because we have to take into account the embodied energy of the panels themselves, thus if there useage remains the same amount of units as before their actual consumption will have gone up.
Solar panels don't just appear , they have to be made and use a lot of energy and precious materials to make and then yet more energy in transporting and fitting and whatever.


Pete

[GeorgeSalt]

But Pete, there's an embedded energy cost in everything. Does this mean that people that don't pass some threshold of greenness shouldn't invest in renewable energy generation?

[doofaloofa]

But Pete, there's an embedded energy cost in everything. Does this mean that people that don't pass some threshold of greenness shouldn't invest in renewable energy generation?

Good point

Should people use rock woll insulation? It is questionable wether the imbeded energy will ever be recouped, and cellulose is so much better in every way

The economics of the whole sector are crazy

[boboff]

What's your favorite type of Jam?

[mrsflibble]

so many people seem to think you're better off without a water meter and it's just not true. on estimated bills we were on £80 a month for just water, and another £21 for sewerage. We requested a meter (landlord all for it, water company shocked) and our bills dropped to under £30 per month for BOTH.
now we're low users, but we still have a washing machine and a dishwasher!

however, all of the water from our condenser dryer goes in the waterbutt which then goes on the plants.....

so, yeah. We were shocked when we moved here how much our water went up. we've always been on a meter in all of the places we've lived, so going on a new one was no problem.

also, they don't need to access y house to read it. they can do it from the pathway, or if there's interference they can do it from outside the closed front door :D

[oldjerry]

What's your favorite type of Jam?

Blackcurrant, What's Yours?

[Crickleymal]

For them to have reduced their overall consumption they would need to be using less electricity than before they had the panels because we have to take into account the embodied energy of the panels themselves, thus if there useage remains the same amount of units as before their actual consumption will have gone up.
Solar panels don't just appear , they have to be made and use a lot of energy and precious materials to make and then yet more energy in transporting and fitting and whatever.

I'm not quite sure about that. Ok I agree there is an embedded cost in materials, energy and CO2. But the output from the panels is pretty much free once they're in. At some point you break even, then from then on it's free energy or nearly so. So in theory, provided that all your consumption is produced by the panels, you should use more to reduce the break even time. Of course this argument falls over at night when you become a consumer, unless you store the energy produced during the day.

[boboff]

What's your favorite type of Jam?

Blackcurrant, What's Yours?

Partial to Blackcurrant, but 2012 Raspberry is pretty hard to beat!

I used to like Pineapple, but you can't get it so much now, although a good Rhubarb & Ginger is hard to beat.