Selfsufficientish.com

Hello,

So I have been planning our patch (very early days but it makes me feel good to have a plan!).

I would really appreciate any feedback on this very sketchy sketch.

We are an odd, piano shaped patch which backs onto a field on the east and a big hornbeam hedge on the west, with nothing much to the north.

I would like to incorporate soft fruit, fruit trees, a greenhouse (or tunnel - still undecided); cutting garden; veg patches; chook enclosure (may move under fruit trees now and again); shed and composting area.

Paths have to be wide grass for now, but we might pave them later.

We have huge willow trees to the south east (the dotted line) which cast a lot of shade...hence the chooks being in that corner.

Hopefully my writing is not too illegible, but if you can read it I would love to hear what you think. Any howlers?
Thanks in advance

Bonnie

Have you got any measurements, it is difficult to tell without knowing what sizes things are, when I do garden plans, I have the length and width and then the sizes of what I want to put in to give more perspective

Also where's the house? Or have I just missed it. Are you familiar with Permaculture design at all, Bonnie? I love the basic idea that different zones radiate out from your kitchen door in concentric circles, according to how well/often they need attending. So all the things you use/tend regularly - a herb bed, raised veg beds and the chickens would be in zone one near water water supply and close to the house. Subsequent zones are given over to soft fruit and trees as they require less tending, ending with a wild zone round the edge.
In practice the zones not really circular, of course, but for planning it's good to have that idea in your head then go with the contours/shape of your garden.
It's very absorbing so will fill a lot of your time while saving up and there's tons of info online. And none of it need cost any money really.

What's the soil like? If it changes over the site (often happens) then you need to think about that. Will the compost heap get enough sun to warm it up so that it rots down? Mine has moved a time or two before I found the best place which didn't interfere with free passage or growing area. Are there going to be water butts to collect off the shed? And off the greenhouse if you don't go for a poly tunnel? Where is the water supply for the area?

You see, all things I hadn't thought of - I knew it was a good idea to ask! Sorry it is on its side - I am struggling with the images.

Sizes - good point - I will produce a scale drawing - the longest (eastern) side is 33m, the back 30m and the other side about 25m.

The plan is just the 'agricultural bit' - there is a bridge (on the southern boundary) to the 'pretty bit' and then the back door is in that garden - about 10m away.

I hadn't thought about the tending of things Maggie, but that is a good point. I will do a bit of research on permaculture, I know a little but am not very confident. To some extent I am limited because I don't want to put the chooks next to the neighbours and the shade from the tree means veg (even the labour intensive stuff) wouldn't thrive there. The greenhouse kind of has to go there otherwise it would be a)right behind the goal for the kids next door(!) and b) in shade.

I hadn't thought of the compost issue - it is east facing where it is and out of sight of the house, but it might not be warm enough, though it is sheltered.

Hmm, thinking cap back on. Will measure and scale it up.

Thanks lovely ishers.

P.s water - thankfully we are not on a meter, but we will have butts on the shed and the greenhouse and I will run an outside tap up the north end too.

Also, you need to spend a few days looking at where the sun goes, which areas have shade, is it all day or just some of the day, which areas get full sun, even when you know which way the sun comes, different things come into play like large trees, fences etc. I have my compost bins right near the chicken house so I can sling it in. In my last garden I had to wheel it quite a way to get rid of it so I knew I wanted the bins in a more ergonomic place and it is also near my tunnels and veg garden so I don't have to wheel it miles to the final destination.

Again, good point, thanks digger. I hadn't thought of that, but the compost will in fact be about 5m away from the chooks with the current plan. I guess I could put them on the eastern side, but I would prefer them out of sight...will think about it.

Aranya's book on Permaculture Design would give you lots of pointers. Well worth reading. Getting it right at this stage will save work later. Take it from one who has learnt from his mistakes.

I have been to so many gardens in my life and they are all so different, if you gave 10 people exactly the same garden, they would do it 10 different ways. What might be fun would be to have a competition of sorts to design a garden based on your garden, if you measured it out, gave where the house is bushes, hedges etc, and see what everyone comes up with, then you can take bits from each one or just do one design

Thanks Baldybloke, have ordered it and will read with interest. Competition sounds good!

It arrived and I almost read the whole thing in a day! Brilliant book. Think I need a little more information about companion plants/plants you can stack, but definitely scope to build permaculture principles into the design. Thanks for the recommendation!

Hi
Having done the same thing last year, here are the mistakes I made.

1 - don't put the fruit bushes too near the tree as the tree will give cover to birds who can fly down and eat your berries. Also, are you sure about having the chickens so close to where wild birds will be sitting in the tree? I've heard that keeping chickens under trees can make red spider mite more of a problem but I don't know if it's true. Have you considered a chook tractor?

2 - compost bins. I've changed from having a composting area to using daleks in the vegetable beds. I put them on the north side of the bed so they don't shade it but they feed the ground nearby as the compost decomposes and you can easily spread the compost around when it's ready.

3 - don't put herbs too near the house door. I did and now I get a kitchen full of bees and butterflies every summer. I'm constantly having to rescue them.

What are you going to edge the veg beds with? At the National Trust we often go in for putting flowers and herbs around the edges to deter carrot fly, onion fly etc and to attract pollinators. I haven't put edges round my beds yet which has turned out to be a good thing as I now want to move them.

Enjoy your new plot, this is the exciting bit, lots of possibilities.

Cheers
Zoe

Thanks Zoe, all things I hadn't thought about.

Are the wild birds a problem because they eat the chicken food? Perhaps I will have to think of a feeder that puts them off, or to feed them twice a day on the ground so that they eat it all up in one go. I am facing up to the fact that despite thinking I had loads of room, it transpires that I don't have space for everything, so the chooks might have to be in a fixed area (apart from the odd holiday in the fruit tree bit to eat the pests before the fruit ripens or to scratch over the veg patches). So if something has to go in the shade, I guess it would be better if it were the chooks? Will keep an eye out for red spider mite too.

I had a notion of keeping the patch 'pretty' with some nice wooden composters, but I am reconsidering - the tunnel is not exactly beautiful, so I may as well go for daleks too, and move them about. They do compost better than anything else don't they? I suppose I could have one by the chooks to put the poo in (also closer to the house so easier to go out to) and one by the veg patch, and then mix it up a few times a year?

Herbs - didn't think of that! Good point.

Have you moved recently then Zoe? Are you working for the National Trust now?

bonniethomas06 wrote:
I had a notion of keeping the patch 'pretty' with some nice wooden composters, but I am reconsidering - the tunnel is not exactly beautiful, so I may as well go for daleks too, and move them about. They do compost better than anything else don't they?

I must admit that I'm not too happy with the composting my daleks are doing... I think it would be better to have more air access. Possibly OK if you can leave the lid off - but I can't do that here, I think the neighbours wouldn't like it. In fact, I only went for the daleks as I thought they'd be better in a built-up area.