Just who should be in the dock here?

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Well exactly Julie. The second one is clearly untrue (except in the case of very small potatoes) and I'm still fretting about whether the first one is or not.

[Clara]

Consider these 2 statements
1) If you don't believe in God, you'll go to hell when you die.....
2) If you don't wash behind your ears, you'll grow potatoes there....

True, but then people don't kill other people or deny them their human rights over potatoes.....

Riff raff - I have to disagree or perhaps just clarify....I think most intelligent people with faith understand that their faith is THEIR truth, which is different from THE truth. The first is the basis of tolerance the second is the basis of evangelism. Their are certain narratives and observances (of a paganish nature) that I find helpful to give me meaning to my life, but I would hope that I would convey to my children that I don't actually believe in some of this stuff literally and that it is one of the many ways of seeing the world. The "foaming atheism" of Dawkins et al, whilst most likely true, does rob humanity of its need for subjectivism and narrative. Human qualities which shouldn't be denied but nevertheless observed for what it is - personal, mutable and completely unprovable.

On the one hand telling a child that there is no heaven may appear cruel, on the other hand I know a lot of people who might have grown up happier being told there is no hell and that they are not born sinners.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Clara,

Fundamentalists of all hues I believe should be regarded as a general enemies of the people. I mistrust them all. I seek the company of the hopeful, the cheerful and the vaguely deluded. I note that - despite their protestations to the contrary - the foamers on both sides are seldom happy. I prefer those of quiet faith, whatever it may be.

How are the final weeks with the Bump going? Not to strenuous, I hope?

[Clara]

How are the final weeks with the Bump going? Not to strenuous, I hope?

thanks for asking....

Hmmmmm let me see..... manhandling donkeys, turning compost, no road access, I'm a bit tired! Still, I've reluctantly agreed to move to the city at 38 weeks so I guess I'll be bored out of my mind then.....fingers crossed for another 39 weeker!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Cities have their uses on occaision! Man handling donkeys at 35 weeks

I hope you are otherwise being waited upon hand and foot!

[oldfella]

When I talk to a child I try to remember that I am talking to a child who at the age 5 tells me to go to Hell, has no concept or understanding of the meaning of that statement, other than Mum or Dad has said it in some form or another. For the teacher to make an issue of this when telling the child that it was " not a nice thing to say" would have been a sufficient reprimand.
I honestly cannot understand why anyone whould make an Issue of anything about a statement made by a 5 yr old child, and least of all, what the hell the headmaster was thinking when He continued to carry on this stupity. This had nothing to with faith or lack off same, but the utterings of a 5 year old child;

[Big Al]

What complete & utter crap!

Now, I have to say here, that I'm not a christian - I'm not catholic, Hindu, Jewish - anything! No, I don't believe in God. I DO have faith, but it's a personal belief.

Howver.... should someone have religion in their lives, so be it.
I've had discussions with folk about their religions, I even took RE as an O'Level at school, I took part in school assemblies with hymns & prayers each morning, as did my classmates of whatever faith they were.
It certainly didn't do me any harm - might not have done me any good either, mind

Now we're in Ireland, little Leah comes home reciting prayers in Irish - she knows her 'Lunch Prayer' her morning prayer, she knows about Brigid's Cross & the blessing it represents, she rattles the catholic religion off to us, tells us stories of Jesus & how he died, how he was born etc etc..... and she's not a catholic either!

Since when did the 'powers that be' decide the normal white person in the Uk can't discuss parts of their lives?? Obviously, religion is an important part of this families life & should be respected.
I'd rather one of Leah's friends tell her about the Sunday church service in the playground, rather than how daddy beat mummy up on Saturday night.... or am I wrong?

As for accessing the lady's private emails, the Head Teacher should be damn well ashamed of himself.

As an aside, I'm so sorry that my favourite T Shirt place is closing down - it's is american & SO outrageous - this is just the sort of topic they would love to play with for a T Shirt. I'd give you an example, but I'd probably be banned from the Ish site forever

I'll hush now, I can feel myself getting angry......

You'll be getting reported julie....
You can't be a "normal white person " anymore. you have to be a politically correct multi cultural enthusiast or you are a racist. Also if you dare to mention immigration then you are definatly a BNP menber of the first order......

I got called a racist because I recounted a local saying up here in the darkest ( unwashed, uneducated, )north about benefit entitlement by saying you would get everything if you were black and polish,lol.


Apparently I was, among other thing a pregnant fish.... it was cut before i read it....... obviously to save me blushing....

[Big Al]

Clara,

Fundamentalists of all hues I believe should be regarded as a general enemies of the people. I mistrust them all. I seek the company of the hopeful, the cheerful and the vaguely deluded. I note that - despite their protestations to the contrary - the foamers on both sides are seldom happy. I prefer those of quiet faith, whatever it may be.

How are the final weeks with the Bump going? Not to strenuous, I hope?

As a proffesional candlemaker i was on quite a few candle boards as you would expect. many of these were occupied by americans and i'd love to wind them up as they didn't understand british warped sense of humour. anyway I got on the wrong side of a southern baptist and she got my email addy so we spent many an email discussing this particular topic whatever it was. Anyway I asked her what would happen is someone denounced the bible in her town. She replied " well the 12 church elders would stand in a ring around the miscrient and read from the bible the scriptures until the person who was blasphemous repented of their sins.... And this was in 2007. She couldn't understand why I was calling her a fundamentalist ( note the part mental) when it was natural for her town. i know who would get sick first if they had me in the middle,lol.

George w bushes Americans ( generally) see muslims as fundermentalists but not themselves.

[Ellendra]

True, but then people don't kill other people or deny them their human rights over potatoes.....

Are you sure?

[Big Al]

True, but then people don't kill other people or deny them their human rights over potatoes.....

Are you sure?

Religion ( or it's followers) will kill more people than potatoes Or their followers) ever will.......

[shell]

in my veiw the school,i tell my kids if they pick their nose their eyes will cave in but i wouldnt like my private emails read, because of it, poor mum,she`s entitled to believe what she likes and her kid,the teacher should have pulled her aside and explained in stead of this inquisition,my son was told at school by another kid that saying jesus was the son of God was like saying the son of God came from a dog,as a christian i found it hurtful but then it wasnt enough to go shouting my mouth off at school gates,so i just said forget it,too much pettyness in my veiw,
ps does the teacher have a religious belief?
oh and i also tell my kids i`ll pin them to the ceiling by their eyelashes if they don`t behave,but no-one has reported me yet

[StripyPixieSocks]

Try toning down the paper selling hype for a minute, knee jerk reactions and rash stories are going to sell papers not the cold hard truth of the story so I take with about a kilo of salt anything said by the media reported above! It sounds like a concerned member of her church forwarded her e-mail to the head, do you really think the government and school authorities have some kind of spying access to everyones e-mails? It's not even remotely logistically possible but it makes a fine newspaper hysteria story though!

IMHO religion of any kind should be banned from everywhere except your private home and places or worship. There is definitely no place for religion in schools or in the houses of commons!

[Big Al]

Actually all emails are recorded and kept for a minimum of 6 months if I remember from last year. The government wanted access to all emails for 12 months but got defeated.... unless someone knows different.

[contadina]

Actually all emails are recorded and kept for a minimum of 6 months

That may be so, but do you really think infant schools have access to them all?

The BBC piece could be more the balanced, but note that it is a follow-up to the original piece that was done today, leaving plenty of time for the assorted officials to get their story "straight." The fresher the story, the closer to the truth is always a good rule.

You have to be joking right...? The Telegraph piece is the most sensationalist piece of nonsense you'd expect to see in the Mail or any of the other tabloids. The journalist has not bothered to speak to anyone at the school, but I guess "pupil told off for frightening classmates with fire and brimstone threats" would not have made such a good story.

As far as I can see, this is a non-story being pushed by the girl's mother, her church and a sloppy editorial line.

[Green Aura]

Contadina, I think I love you - in a non-biblical way of course. You always seem to put bluntly and concisely what I skirt and burble about.

Jon, did the photo on the article not give you some clue as to how the tone of the article might be biased? Woman, clutching cross looking heavenwards - please!