How do I make bread?

[contadina]

Presumably ferramente = ironmongers in English?

Well deduced Wulf.

As Andy says, they pretty much stock everything. It's generally a case of ask if you don't see it as they'll have it stored outback or they'll source it and order it in for you. Winding even more off topic...we bought a cast iron range from a local ferramenta and were agog when he delivered it in the back of his Mercedes. You won't get B&Q doing that .

[wulf]

For those without the benefit of nearby Italian bazaars, the Wikipedia page on dough scrapers provides some potentially useful search terms. Or, for some US sources (and some suitably -ish ideas) try this discussion.

Wulf

[Green Aura]

fleabay do them (I should get commision)

[grahamhobbs]

Made my scraper cut from the side of an ice cream carton - being made of a fairly rigid but flexible plastic it makes a perfect scraper / divider of dough. You don't need a metal one unless perhaps you are making hundreds of loaves at a time. Plastic is best for scraping the insides of a bowl and is more than sufficient for cutting the dough into loaves.

[Odsox]

Sorry I haven't reported back sooner Graham but I had to go shopping all day yesterday in the big city, and I'm still traumatised.
To make matters worse it was the kind of shopping that begins with Chris****.

Anyway, I made a pound loaf on Friday using half a tsp of yeast as you suggested and put it in the fridge.
16 hours later, next morning, it was still exactly the size it was when I made it, so I left it there and took it out Sunday morning which was 40 hours after I made it and it had risen a bit, but nowhere near enough. So I stuck it in a warm place and an hour later bunged it in the oven.
I must say it does taste like sour dough but was still a bit heavy for my liking, so probably needed a bit more rising.
I will have to experiment more, but in the meantime I don't think it will replace the fast rising bread I usually make.

[grahamhobbs]

Sorry to hear that Odsox, as I said I don't put the dough in the fridge myself, just a cold place (but use 1/4 tp of yeast. The only thing I can think of at the moment is to use more yeast and/or don't put it into the fridge straightaway. I'll check things out a bit and get back to you.

[grahamhobbs]

Odsox, have checked this out a bit more, the fridge is so cold that all dough development is virtually suspended (although not entirely), however other reactions are taking place to the sugars. So although the dough does not rise, the flavour is improved. This means I think that you can suspend your normal method at any point and revert back to it once the dough is taken out of the fridge and the dough has warmed up.
I guess I put the dough in a cool place, av. 12deg, which together with v.small quantities of yeast gives a slow dough development which achieves the extra flavour.

[Odsox]

OK, thanks for that.
I will give it one more go next time I make my "normal" batch of bread.
I'll make it the day before, stick it in the fridge for 24 hours and then take it out and proceed as normal.
My normal bread is a mixture of 10% rye, wheat and sunflower seeds so is pretty tasty to start with, but if it makes it even tastier then I'm all for it even if it does spread my bread making over two days.

[Green Aura]

I tried it without much success too.

The first time I added a tad more yeast - 1/2tsp - because I only had time to leave it 12 hours - it rose OK, but came out more of a cake texture than bread. So I made it again and left it for 24 hours but it didn't seem to have risen much and was very heavy. Maybe I over worked it.

Anyway I'm going back to my 5-minute bread for the time being and will watch this thread with interest.

[contadina]

Is the problem with the slow rise people are having due to not using fresh yeast? I always buy fresh yeast from the bakers (as they bake bread daily I trust them more than any supermarket). Make dough with flour, water, oil, yeast and salt. Leave dough in the fridge either all day or overnight and it's always doubled in size, ready to shape and leave somewhere warm for 40mins before baking.

[grahamhobbs]

Hi Contadina, it is great to hear that you get a good rise in the fridge. Can you let us know what quantity/proportion of yeast you use?

[grahamhobbs]

Odsox, have done some research.
Firstly your desire to eat hot bread on Sunday morning is somewhat in contradiction to getting more flavour into your bread. The flavour in bread essentially develops after it has cooled.
I assume you are making bread on the straight dough method, ie. you mix, knead, leave to rise, perhaps knock back, prove and then bake. The only way to get more flavour (other than through additions of nuts, etc) is to extend the period of rise, either by putting the dough in the fridge or reducing the amount of yeast

1. Making the dough and putting in the fridge hoping it will slowly rise in the fridge overnight. It seems you need to use a lot more yeast for this to happen, about 6 times what I said previously, ie. about 1.5% (of flour weight) of dried yeast (3% if live yeast). Otherwise with less yeast the fermentation is virtually stoppped and only starts again when the dough is taken out of the fridge. I was hoping Contadina was going to confirm the proportions she uses.

2. I put my dough in a cool place, but if you live in a centrally heated house, make the dough with about 1/8th of a teaspoon of dried yeast to 1000g of flour. This should take about 16hours to rise.

3. Both the above will increase the flavour (and the bread will keep better, however eating straight from the oven will negate both of these). An alternative is to make your bread normally but only half bake. This can then be frozen and the bake completed Sunday morning

Another simple way to add flavour is by retaining part of the dough after it has risen and putting this in the fridge. This is then mixed in when you make bread again, mixing say 1/3 this old dough with the new flour (assuming you make bread a couple of times a week).

[A&A]

I managed to pick up Richard Bertinet's book and love it. I had no idea what I was missing and I'm thoroughly enjoying experimenting with the recipes. I've got my own ferment going in the fridge and am looking foward to seeing the difference in taste this can make with my next loaf.

[grahamhobbs]

A&A, great to see you are getting into some serious bread making, hope your sourdough goes well and you create some wonderful breads.
Although it is good to see an explanation of the french alternative to kneading dough, personally I think Bertinet's book doesn't go much beyond a collection of recipes.
For a greater understanding of the various ways of making bread, I would recommend 'Bread - a baker's book of techniques and recipes' by Jeffrey Hamelman. Ok it does not have so many coloured pictures, but it really explains the various techniques involved in baking great bread.

[A&A]

Thanks for that Graham - it's a bit addictive isn't it?! It'll cost me a fortune in books if I'm not careful ;)