grahamhobbs wrote:MKG, sorry but you are doing it again. I have reread the posts again, I can find no one who has defended the actions of the rioters. Various people have tried to put it into a context, what is the background, why did it happen, etc. Trying to understand something is not to defend it. When the National Front or British Defence League march or make gains in elections, because I try to discuss and understand why young people support them, I am not defending them. Fascism is incomprehensible to me, as perhaps these rioters are to you, but I believe you can't change something unless you understand it.
You ask why you should waste your time considering why the kids did this, yet you have put considerable time and effort in forcibly rebuking those of us in this thread that have attempted to discuss and find answers to these questions, why?
Ah - now I see where you're coming from, Graham. Various people - and by that I must assume the ones with whom you agree - unfortunately have not tried to put it into a context. Rather than that, they have demanded that I do so. And they try to understand what has happened - well, good; I hope they reach their understanding soon. It probably won't be what I already understand to have happened and it probably won't agree with the context into which I put the whole thing. I have not done any of this in a knee-jerk reaction to events I don't like. It's simply that having thought about it, having read about it, having seen and heard what there is to see and hear, having spoken to people who live in the affected areas, in fact having gathered as much opinion and evidence as I am able to do, I have reached what I consider to be an understanding and an explanation. It may be somewhat hard to take that someone has come to conclusions with which other people may disagree, but that's a fact of life. At least I have an understanding to offer, something which is obviously being ignored as it doesn't fit the nebulous ideas of others.
What you are accusing me of is rebuking those who have actually reached no conclusions whatsoever but who still insist that everyone else's conclusions are in error. Well, I'm certainly going to disagree with the word "rebuke". I may put my arguments forcibly, but that's because I'm angry.
I think it may be advisable for many people to take their own advice - make a determined attempt to understand, but not to apply that to the perpetrators of an act, but rather its victims. In doing so, they may also gain an understanding of why the majority of members of this society are angry. Given countless previous examples of appeals for the understanding of criminal acts, that should keep them quiet until the turn of the next century.
I find it sad that anyone can be taken in by the tactics which have so often been used by woolly-minded social theorists. An appeal to delay any discussion, and certainly any action, concerning a criminal act in order to come to an understanding of circumstances is, despite what you say, a tacit defence of the act itself.
In short, I do understand what has gone on. It is, to me, blatantly obvious what has happened. I wish people would therefore cease asking me to try to reach an understanding - I'm already there.
Susie - I had two female ancestors in the workhouse. They both got out by dint of their own efforts - as, in fact, most females did. They took the lowest paid jobs available and went into service. Unless, of course, there was a riot in Berwick upon Tweed of which I'm unaware.
EDIT: Sorry, Graham - I didn't answer your question ...
"You ask why you should waste your time considering why the kids
did this, yet you have put considerable time and effort in forcibly rebuking those of us in this thread that have attempted to discuss and find answers to these questions, why?"
I've highlighted what my basic response is. Despite the fact that I asked no such thing, you have insisted on putting the word "kids" in there and then attributed it to me. The evidence - the down-to-earth truth - is that the criminal acts were not perpetrated only by kids. I think you'll find that I pointed this out earlier. As I've said, I was rebuking no-one but, even if it could be so construed, I'm not in the habit of putting very emotive words into the mouths of other people.