crop rotation groups

[Annpan]

I am not planing on replacing any top soil.... hmmm.... I suppose I could move the nursery bed around.

Replacing top-soil must be a nightmare, I was hoping not to do it, seems to go against the permaculture thing I was aiming for, plus I was hoping that once established the garden shouldn't need so much attention....

Hope you'll have fun on your 5 acres - 1/2 acre will suit me fine for now

[Peggy Sue]

Sweetcorn you can fit in anywhere, its gloried grass so doesn't really have pest problems, lots of people grow it with the squash.

Peppers (and aubergines) are potato family but I'm told suffer less with blight and other potato curses so it's not as critical. I've never found they are that successful outdoors, but that could well be me!

Cucumbers - not sure, someone else will ahve to enlighten you...

On crop rotation I liked the suggestion from Muddy Witch, but I always have the dilemma I want to manure six months before planting, so thats Sept/Oct before potatoes in March/April, so if the last crops in the rotation are roots they are still in the ground til Jan fro leeks and parsnips...who has a solution?

[Odsox]

I must admit that crop rotation defeats me although I do rotate in a way.
I know why you should rotate crops, I know which crops rotate where, I just don't know how.

Let me explain, to start with brassicas should be followed by roots ... correct ?
OK, I grow PSB and sprouts in the brassica bed ... PSB and sprout greens keep going till May most years, but I need to sow parsnips and carrots long before that and just to compound things, I grow overwintering onion set and seed .. not to mention garlic.
How do you fit that lot into the scheme of things ?

Next plot, roots should be followed by peas & beans.
Again that is almost impossible as the parsnips are still going strong in February and March, but I need to dig it over in October to sow my overwintering peas and broad beans (and I don't like parsnips stored in sand or a clamp)

About the only section that kind of works is brassicas following peas & beans, but even here there is some clashing as the runner beans keep going till at least October, maincrop peas till September, but early sprouts need to be planted out by June at the latest and Purple Sprouting soon after.

And to cap it all, these beds are supposed to be dug in the autumn and left over winter.
And, and, and... what about if you save your own seed, which means things like parsnips, carrots, leeks etc need to be left for at least another 6 months.

I can see that if you have multiple beds you could plan it quite easy, but most people only have a small plot (like me) where it's virtually impossible to do.
So I think I will continue the way I have for the last 50 odd years and just make sure nothing grows in the same spot every year. I will still plant my early Brussel Sprouts between my early Potato rows, and my over-wintering crops in the most sheltered part of the garden. The potatoes get a good dosing of blood fish & bone meal which the sprouts will also enjoy and I can lime the sprouts after the potatoes have been dug and as long as I don't manure my root crops I think everything will be OK.
All in all I think that crop rotation should be at the back of every gardeners mind but certainly not be ruled by it.

Sorry 'bout that.

[Urban Ayisha]

ive been told that unless your land is heavily farmed that it isnt so much of a big deal as long as you enrich the soil when you can and try not to grow the same things twice in a row. seems to be working so far...

and i dont grow brassicas cos all the netting and pests seem like too much effort!

[Millymollymandy]

I have the same problem as Odsox! I want to get my broad beans sown (first time!), but I don't know how much space I'll have for them until I get the frame in for the runner beans...... which I can't do cos the PS brocolli is in the way. Gonna have to guesstimate a bit I think!

[JulieSherris]

MMM... why don't you do a bus shelter frame for your runners & pop the broad beans in front?
It saves you a LOT of space - I'm putting leeks & onions in my space this year, but then it's the first year for this plot, so mothing's in the way yet!

[Millymollymandy]

Er um apart from not knowing what a bus shelter frame is (tho' I can hazard a guess!), I don't have an actual problem with space per se, it's just that there's a row of psb in the middle of one of my plots! Actually had a look this morning and I think there's room for the frame for the runners (not doing a wigwam this year as it got way too congested) to fit in. I am not sure whether I like broad beans or not (have always hated them) so I don't want to grow very many as it is an experiment! But I will be growing lots more borlotti beans this year as we discovered that they are very nice.

Really that's another reason why the crop rotation is difficult if you don't keep growing the same things each year!

[JulieSherris]

Aarrgghh... I can't explain the bus shelter idea, it'll come out as gobbledegook - but give me a couple of days & I'll show you how it works when Andy's put the frame up for mine!

The nice thing about it is that you only use one side of the bed for a double row of beans & grow other crops in the middle.... but I'm not getting into explanations, I'll just tie myself up in knots

[Millymollymandy]

No you're not making any sense whatsoever! Anyway my bean frame is in and there's more than enough room for a big double row of broad beans and the supports (that I've only just learnt from the internet are needed!) - only I don't want to grow too many so I'll probably have room to bung a few lettuces in between the two lots of beans.

[frozenthunderbolt]

broad beans and the supports (that I've only just learnt from the internet are needed!)

Yep. lots and lots of support - wide beams NOT strings are my preference - i learned the hard way that in a wee bit of a blow Broad Beans fold very neatly luckily they were ripe enough i could harvest them anyways

[JulieSherris]

Aarrgghh... I can't explain the bus shelter idea, it'll come out as gobbledegook - but give me a couple of days & I'll show you how it works when Andy's put the frame up for mine! ......

In light of recent events MMM, it may take more than a couple of days for an illustrative photo on this one......

[Chicken6]

Aarrgghh... I can't explain the bus shelter idea, it'll come out as gobbledegook - but give me a couple of days & I'll show you how it works when Andy's put the frame up for mine! ......

In light of recent events MMM, it may take more than a couple of days for an illustrative photo on this one......

Do you mean grow up one side (wall of bus shelter) and then along the top maybe slightly sloping. Like that of a bus shelter with the one back wall and roof.

[JulieSherris]

That's exactly it! Like an upside down L shape, with an upward slope on the top piece - the soil inside the 'shelter' then gets filled with crops like onions & leeks as they are great companion plants, so everything is happy

The added bonus is that when the beans grow, they hang down from the top & are easy to spot & pick as well - and if you use string for the support, the string goes into the ground with the bean - as the bean sprouts roots, it tightens the string in the soil & each bean has its own string to twine up - in theory, this should also stop the bean from wandering off looking for support elsewhere.... ok, I did say 'in theory'

Anyway, I'll post a pic when it's done - say around June? (where's the innocent-sarcastic smillie when you want it?)

[Millymollymandy]

That's what I thought but sounds complicated making a frame for that, also you'd have to make sure it was facing the right direction otherwise those runners will shade the other plants out!

I look forward to seeing a photo of it at Xmas anyway.

[Chicken6]

That's what I thought but sounds complicated making a frame for that, also you'd have to make sure it was facing the right direction otherwise those runners will shade the other plants out!

I look forward to seeing a photo of it at Xmas anyway.

Actually there are a few plot holders on our site who grow them this way and they always have bumper crops and the crops around and under the beans seem to do just fine.