self sufficient an expensive hobby ?

[mrsflibble]

I can never be selfsufficient, nor do I wish to be, but I shall continue my efforts, making my own jam and marmalade because I prefer the flavour; making bread occasionally as a change; walking or cycling most places because I han't a choice...

in the future when we own a house I'd love to have a solar heating system, or at least get our hot water from solar panels.

[Big Al]

I can never be selfsufficient, nor do I wish to be, but I shall continue my efforts, making my own jam and marmalade because I prefer the flavour; making bread occasionally as a change; walking or cycling most places because I han't a choice...

in the future when we own a house I'd love to have a solar heating system, or at least get our hot water from solar panels.

Think about solar thermal carefully. It's ok if you have a large tank and take showers / baths in the late evening / night but if you have a small tank and wash in the mornings then solar thermal can sometimes not be the answer because it takes time to warm the water up and if you have a small water tank you are warming water from cold.

As another thought on this whole self sufficientcy thing since my last post I reckon my term of SS includes the phrase someone else more eminent that I coined where they said "travelling lightly on the earth" or "leaving as lighter footprint as possible".

Maybe I'm just down at the moment and feeling as if I couldn't give a sh£t about anything at present....

It gets worse Mrs F when in this so called "1st world civillised society" you can't afford the shoes or the puncture repair kit.....

[mrsflibble]

Al, don't feel too down. we're all in a crap boat.

We;ve had to stop buying organic because we just can't afford it. thankfully sophie is out of nappies otherwise it'd be a fortune to either wash to buy them, and I am finding that more and more of our week's shoppin trolley is amade up of the asda white and green smartprice stuff and less and less of the"better" things.

[Millymollymandy]

Welcome to my world! I've rarely ever bought an organic 'product' from the supermarket because I can't afford to pay 3-4 times more, and always buy supermarket 'value' stuff which is much cheaper than their own brand stuff. But I do eat good veggies!

[Rosendula]

Maybe I'm just down at the moment and feeling as if I couldn't give a sh£t about anything at present....

It gets worse Mrs F when in this so called "1st world civillised society" you can't afford the shoes or the puncture repair kit.....

Oh dear, Big Al I was in a similar situation for a few years - shoes had holes in, didn't have enough underwear, didn't have any jumpers for winter, had one coat that was for all year round, so too warm for summer, too cold for winter, the heating didn't work properly... it's not nice and you have my sympathy. But one thing I can say with confidence is that things change. We can't always anticipate how, why or when things will change, but they do. When you're going through shi!t, things DO get better. Then they get bad again. Then they get better. That's life. But in the meantime, while you're down and suffering, remember what your friends are here for

[Big Al]

Al, don't feel too down. we're all in a crap boat.

We;ve had to stop buying organic because we just can't afford it. thankfully sophie is out of nappies otherwise it'd be a fortune to either wash to buy them, and I am finding that more and more of our week's shoppin trolley is amade up of the asda white and green smartprice stuff and less and less of the"better" things.

Actually all of my weekly shop is Asda green label. That was a concious choice after seeing martain money expert do the downshift challenge. The only thing I insist on being branded is HP brown sauce but then it's got 26% sugar which is no good for people watching sugar.

No, my boat has holes in it and the crap used to plug the holes is now floating round my neck,lol.

What really annoys me is that in general people do what they can to get by. Always have done always will do but for general folk as prices rise the only "give factor" is standard of living.

[mrsflibble]

I will try anything in the green label stuff, but if I don't like it we either go without or it becomes a treat.

heinz beans,
kellog's crunchy nut cornflakes (if no room is found in the budget, we have own brand cereal but never own brand crunchy nut cornflakes)
heinz soups and
clover margarine are the only things I insist upon and make room for in the budget.

[paul123456]

So it seems that the ss way of life , if you want to include organic food , which is bought , becomes expensive ,

so , it does seem to be an expensive hobby .

Although it could be said that anyone making an attempt , big or small are in their own way ss .
I realise that 100 % ss in not possible now , my idea would be ideally , creating your own power and heat for 100%.

Vegeatable and fruit for 70 % , and meat for 60 % , still then the rest would have to be bought in from ,
if posible local suppliers .

Today on the dutch radio was an advert for a supermarket selling Spanish melons for €0.79 ct a piece .

How's that possible ? They pay the poor spanish farmer a few cents , then the transport to Holland , these actions
should be banned ,

regards ,

Paul

[Annpan]

So it seems that the ss way of life , if you want to include organic food , which is bought , becomes expensive ,

so , it does seem to be an expensive hobby .

Well... that makes no sense what so ever I am afraid. Yes buying in organic fruit and veg is expensive but it has nothing to do with being self-sufficient.

Of course buying more stuff is expensive

Now that we grow much of our own food we forgo those things the rest of the year.
I don't by strawberries, raspberries, peas, turnip or rhubarb since we have worked out how to grow them (I'm working on the rest )... If I want more I grow more, or I wait... If we raised meat for the table I wouldn't buy in anyone elses meat.
I also make all our pickles, chutneys, jams, sauces and preserves. We don't buy anything except from Mayonnaise, salt and vinegar for picking now from the condiment isle in the supermarket.
We still buy in much of the staples (carrots, potatoes, onions), meat (because we don't grow our own) and of course the grains, flour and pasta. But we would be doing that whether we were growing our own or not.

We are back to the whole issue of choice again. MrsF chooses to buy Hienz soup, I always make my own soups, don't remember when I last bought in a tin of soup (that is our CHOICE, I am not complaining about it) Even Big ALs comment about solar thermal not working if you wash in the morning... OK... that is your CHOICE to wash in the morning... but don't say that solar heating isn't worth it because of the CHOICE that you have made. (I'm using examples BigAl and MrsF, I see nothing wrong with your choices, that is the beauty of them, they are yours to make )

Self-sufficiency isn't an expensive hobby (oh, and I still resent the use of the word 'hobby') choosing to buy in organic muck, organic feed, organic fancy food for your family, driving a land rover, buying a wind turbine is expensive.

But baking bread, make-do-and-mend, and growing potatoes is only expensive in time, not in money.

Sorry if I stepped on some toes there

[Rosendula]

We are back to the whole issue of choice again. MrsF chooses to buy Hienz soup, I always make my own soups, don't remember when I last bought in a tin of soup (that is our CHOICE, I am not complaining about it) Even Big ALs comment about solar thermal not working if you wash in the morning... OK... that is your CHOICE to wash in the morning... but don't say that solar heating isn't worth it because of the CHOICE that you have made. (I'm using examples BigAl and MrsF, I see nothing wrong with your choices, that is the beauty of them, they are yours to make )

.....Sorry if I stepped on some toes there

This is a very difficult thing to get across to people without someone taking it the wrong way, but I understand what you mean, Annpan. When I was last working for money, a colleague was always complaining about feeling stressed at work, the kids not wanting to go to nursery, having to get up so early to get to work, etc., etc. I once tried to explain to her that she didn't have to do it if she didn't want to and she shouldn't be stressed about it because it was HER CHOICE to do these things. She looked daggers at me. She really couldn't see that if she didn't work for money (part-time, I might add), she wouldn't have to pay the nursery, or feel stressed about waking the kids before they were ready to wake up, having to leave them kicking and screaming at the nursery so she could go to work in a car that she only needed to go to work in (if she wasn't working, I'm pretty sure she could have shared her husband's car). She was a real one for keeping up with the Jones's, and had to pay someone to clean her house, had the car serviced at the dealers rather than a small local mechanic, had at least two expensive holidays a year, plus camping trips, lived in a (mortgaged) house that was bigger than she needed, etc., etc. I personally felt she had no business complaining about work/nursery/kids not co-operating with the morning hustle and bustle to get out at 6am, because it was all so that she could say she was working and earning money. I'm actually convinced that she spent more going to work that she earned. But, she said, if she didn't go out to work she'd go mad!

On the subject of labels, when we used to buy almost everything from supermarkets, we always tried the cheapest stuff first. If we didn't like it, we bought the next cheapest, and so on. The amount of money I am saving by growing/making my own must be peanuts compared to what I would be saving if I had changed from all big brands.

[ina]

Depends on what you call expensive. It is really difficult to be even self sufficientish if your only choice of habitation is a council flat without garden... OK, you can grow a few things on the window sill, but if you are in a high rise, it'll only be herbs on the inside window sill! And yes, if you are lucky you live somewhere within walking distance of an allotment that is actually available now and not in 10 years time... And within walking distance of public parks where you can do a bit of foraging... So somebody who doesn't earn the money to buy their own house with garden, will find it rather expensive.

Which is why we are back to the -ish thing - we all try to be as -ish as we can, and don't aim for total selfsufficiency, because for that, I'm afraid, I still can't see a way without starter funds.

[contadino]

So it seems that the ss way of life , if you want to include organic food , which is bought , becomes expensive ,

so , it does seem to be an expensive hobby .

Hmmm...it looks like you're trying to push an agenda here regardless of the responses you get.

Buying organic food does not equal being self-sufficient, no matter how you wrap it up.

To answer your question again, no, self-sufficiency is not just an expensive hobby.

[Annpan]

Depends on what you call expensive. It is really difficult to be even self sufficientish if your only choice of habitation is a council flat without garden... OK, you can grow a few things on the window sill, but if you are in a high rise, it'll only be herbs on the inside window sill! And yes, if you are lucky you live somewhere within walking distance of an allotment that is actually available now and not in 10 years time... And within walking distance of public parks where you can do a bit of foraging... So somebody who doesn't earn the money to buy their own house with garden, will find it rather expensive.

Which is why we are back to the -ish thing - we all try to be as -ish as we can, and don't aim for total selfsufficiency, because for that, I'm afraid, I still can't see a way without starter funds.

You are right Ina, appologies. The small bit of land is the expensive bit (and we have a bigger small bit of land than most) Sadly allotments aren't available to all as they should be.

[Rosendula]

So it seems that the ss way of life , if you want to include organic food , which is bought , becomes expensive ,

so , it does seem to be an expensive hobby .

Paul, can I just ask if you meant to put "if you want to include organic food , which is bought", or was that a typo? Did you mean "which if bought"?

[paul123456]

wow ,

what alot of reactions .

I only mean that in an effort to be as much self sufficient as possible , it would include of course growing your own veg .
And seeing as it is very difficult to do this 100 % on a yearly basis , then you'll have to buy in .
Buying in organic then seems to me to be the best way ,

regards

paul