Gay Marriage

[Andy Hamilton]

The Quakers, the Unitarians, the Wiccans, and a number of liberal synagogues (and probably a few others that I've forgotten) all actively want to be able to marry gay members, and are currently not legally allowed to.

I didn't realise this (that there were so many religious groups waiting to be able to perform gay marriages) - I find that very cheering!

I second that!

Two of my mates have a civil partnership they consider themselves married and don't really worry too much about whats going on with "clearly insane" members of the church who might not agree. Not that I am saying all religious people are insane, just that idiot catholic who's been shouting his mouth off.

It's down to interpritation (of religious text) though isn't it? Some religious people are the most tollerant people you will ever meet this is what a good Christian should really be like, or a devout jew, Muslim, buddhist or indeed anyone of faith. Most faiths preach acceptance, tollerance and love for their fellow humans at the very core of their religous teachings. Its unfortunate that some people believe in the letter of the words of faith and get lost in what might have been an opinion written 2000 years ago. This I think is where we get problems of tollerance or rather lack of.

...But sometimes non religious people can have some of the most narrowminded dogmatic views and be unaccepting of their fellow humans.

People are people. It would be nice if we all got along and accepted our differences, but some people don't and that just makes the rest of us look really good.

[MKG]

Marriage - the partnership of two people - had nothing whatsoever to do with the church until the 12th century, and then only because the church spotted a money-making scam which could be be exploited. Since then, said church has been pretending that it has some definitive say in the matter. There is no basis for this argument, no matter where you look.

In the absence of evidence for medieval intercession from heaven, I think it entirely appropriate for people to do with marriage whatever they want.

Mike

[The Riff-Raff Element]

...But sometimes non religious people can have some of the most narrowminded dogmatic views and be unaccepting of their fellow humans.

And this (speaking as an mild-mannered agnostic) seems to be something that is increasing. There is a general rise in intolerance on both sides of the fence which is making sitting on it a sight less comfortable than it used to be. Particularly the bloody atheists who are particularly full of beans at the moment and keep lobbing all kind of junk. I keep having to duck. They should switch to de-caf.

If I've got this right, currently, the only religious institution that could NOT perform a "marriage" ceremony for a gay couple is the Established Church. That is because it is the only body outside of the civil registrar where the ceremony itself produces a legally binding contract. In all other churches - Catholic, Mormon, Wiccan, whatever, the marriage contact has to be certified by the presence of a registrar to conduct the legal niceties, so they could already carry out a "blessing ceremony" if they so desired, though it would have only spiritual significance, not legal. I think some churches already do this.

Legalisation of the marriage of gay couples would effectively require the CofE to conduct the ceremony whether it liked it or not, hence the fuss.

I suppose the way around this would be to disestablish the CofE (which would have the fringe benefit of allowing people to use the word "antidisestablishmentarianism" in anger for once ) and allow the individual parishes to do as they see fit, but that would almost legitimise continuing discrimination against homosexuals.

I incline to the view that if there be a God then he / she cannot have created anything that is less than perfect in his / her eyes, so the Church should be accepting. But what do I know?

Right, tea break over, back on the fence.

[boboff]

If you do not believe in the Almighty Gods Love and unbounded forgiveness, then you will be condemned to an infinity of pain and purgatory.

[demi]

no matter gay straight or bi
lesbein transgender life
im on the right track baby
i was born to survive

no matter black white or bage
chola or orient made
im on the right track baby
i was born to be brave

LOVE lady gaga!!!!! its a shame shes one of those religious americans who dont belive they can do anything for themsleves without he help from a higher power. get real! you did it baby, it was all you ! friking fanmtastic im actually in love with her sorry husband

[boboff]

Go Demi! Go Demi, Go Demi!!!!

*Paralell arms out, mix the pudding girl!

[oldfella]

Why the hell can't we let people live their lives they way they want, provided that it is not to the detriment, or expense of others. Your beliefs, are not my beliefs, and though out the short history of mankind, the adage of that," My way is the right way " has been the bane of Human kind.
I am sure that each and every one of us knows, deep within ourselves how we should live our lives.
To often people are judged,and found guilty, by someone else's beliefs, the worst example being the Religious Views of others, an example being, I a "Anti Semitic" because I was sicken by seeing a 4 yr old child burning with Phosphorous. At the end of the day, we will all without exception, end up from whence we came, to our true home" Mother Earth"

"Sorry for the Rant"

[demi]

what really annoys me is when people, like david cameron, say things like along the lines of 'we should turn to christianity for moral guidance' like if your not christian you cant have morals! mental. more like if you actually read the bible, koran or whatever book jewish people follow, its actually full of predjudice, homephobia, racism, sexism and hatred which promotes selling your daughters as sex slaves and stonning women to death for being raped by the neibour. wheres the morals in that? i dont think so!

[boboff]

Umm, too far peeps.

The basics of Christianity can't be carte blanche dismissed.

If you go into the Welfare dominated town centres and look for respect of thy neighbour, not stealing, lying, working hard, you will see only people looking fondly at others Oxen.... It's that which Cameron is alluding to.

We should all try and be a little better to each other, is not a bad thought, it is too easy to castigate the Politicians and the Clergy for not taking a little of this medicine upon themselves, but it shouldn't prevent us trying.

"Sermon Over"

[oldjerry]

you will be condemned to an infinity of pain and purgatory.

Is that why they call the Cof E 'The Tory Party at Prayer'? !

[gregorach]

The basics of Christianity can't be carte blanche dismissed.

There doesn't seem to be that much agreement as to what "the basics of Christianity" even are. For every "turn the other cheek", there's a "I come not to bring peace, but a sword". Everyone picks the bits they like, ignores the bits they don't, and claims that that's "the basics of Christianity".

Probably the only bit that really has a solid claim would be the Nicene Creed (and even then there's the question of which version)... And I'm afraid that either version can be dismissed , carte blanche, until somebody comes up with a reason to take the very first concept (the existence of "God") seriously. I've looked at every serious theological argument I can find, and so far I am not impressed. Well, other than by the incredible amount of question-begging, circular reasoning, non-sequiturs, and generally fallacious reasoning which otherwise intelligent people can indulge in when it suits them...

[boboff]

Yes indeed, the basic premice of "faith" we can leave to one side, as like you say it's both personal, and also just as impossible to disprove as prove, if you are of the mind to.

Nobody needs a religion to understand the better aspects of human nature, and by that I mean pack rules. I see these as watching each others back, sharing, helping those in need, respecting your elders nurturing your children, loving your family, not sleeping with your brothers wife when she drunk, that sort of thing.

You are right in that to put this as a fundamental aspect of religion and ignore the "dogma" is cherry picking in the extreme, but thats not to say that these rules perhaps were part of society before our current version of religion.

[demi]

Yes indeed, the basic premice of "faith" we can leave to one side, as like you say it's both personal, and also just as impossible to disprove as prove, if you are of the mind to.

it is not impossible to to dispprove. there is lots of evidence against religion and the stories in the bible. evolution being one of them. it is impossible however, to prove somthing that doesnt exist, because it doesnt exist there is nothing to prove.

[demi]

well thats me told then

and for the record, this is me playing nicely.

[demi]

well thats me told then

and for the record, this is me playing nicely.

Well then, play nicer!

i will try, honsetly