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demi wrote: @ OJ

we've been reading about hot beds too and we'll probably make them from the manure if we get the goats.
there doesnt seem to be too much information in books or online about hotbeds, seems to be an old fashioned method not really used nowadays, i dont know why though? seems like a good idea to me!

They can be quite labour intensive to do properly... I seem to recall from "The Lost Gardens of Heligan" than maintaining the hot beds there was more-or-less a full-time job for one man in the winter. In those days labour was cheap and heat was expensive, whereas these days it's the other way around.

Odsox wrote:On a different tack ...
I have a hotbed that I made just too late for last winter, but mine is heated with an electric cable fed from a wind turbine.
It's built like a small greenhouse and is inside my big greenhouse, and has so far grown lettuce, carrots, spring onions and radishes continuously since February.
The plan is to produce salad stuff all through next winter regardless of the outside weather.

You can get some really hardy winter lettuces these days, you know...

gregorach wrote:You can get some really hardy winter lettuces these days, you know...

I know you can, but they don't grow fast enough to keep up with my tomatoes

Saffronsue, my pleasure. I enjoyed re-reading it and am glad I did because I had forgotten about the leaves recommended.
Now I live on a corner house and all the leaves from street blow in my gate I'm thinking about having a go. Have sources of fresh manure already.

Your in situ idea sounds worth trying. If it's little effort and cost then why not. If a piece of potato peel can grow a handful of spuds in a compost bin then can't see why a proper seed shouldn't grow on a muck heap

I just turned my compost heap recently for use and decided before starting to fill it again I would put three seed potatoes on the bottom. See what happens.

gregorach wrote:

demi wrote: @ OJ

we've been reading about hot beds too and we'll probably make them from the manure if we get the goats.
there doesnt seem to be too much information in books or online about hotbeds, seems to be an old fashioned method not really used nowadays, i dont know why though? seems like a good idea to me!

They can be quite labour intensive to do properly... I seem to recall from "The Lost Gardens of Heligan" than maintaining the hot beds there was more-or-less a full-time job for one man in the winter. In those days labour was cheap and heat was expensive, whereas these days it's the other way around.

Odsox wrote:On a different tack ...
I have a hotbed that I made just too late for last winter, but mine is heated with an electric cable fed from a wind turbine.
It's built like a small greenhouse and is inside my big greenhouse, and has so far grown lettuce, carrots, spring onions and radishes continuously since February.
The plan is to produce salad stuff all through next winter regardless of the outside weather.

You can get some really hardy winter lettuces these days, you know...

Oddsox I agree that in those days labour was cheap and now it isn't but don't agree that heat isn't expensive now. Especially for people who haven't yet got wind and solar this could be a useful solution. For starting seeds, which need consistent temperature which might not always happen if not windy and sun doesn't shine at night. Ok I suppose you can store electricity in a battery but we don't all have this technology.

It might have been a full time job in the winter at Heligan but this was on very large scale I'm guessing. The man's job was making good use of a waste product too so really he was doing more than one job. They had a lot more horses everywhere in those days. Making use of the heat also speeded up the process so it could be used on the land.

Small scale it seems quite do-able to me.

Smaller scale, I know, but growing courgettes and cucumbers on the top of your compost heap works well - for exactly the same reasons.

Mike

Well, heat isn't that expensive as compared to labour, was what I meant... You could probably heat a (properly-insulated) greenhouse to hot-house levels all winter for less than a week's wages.

Yes, they did do it on a very large scale at Heligan (30 tons of manure at a time, if I recall) but that's the thing with this sort of heating - it works much better on a large scale, because of the volume / surface area ratio. I don't know about anybody else, but I often struggle to generate much heat at all in my small compost heaps, especially in the depths of a Scottish winter.

Not like that bugger Odsox, basking in his tropical paradise with his mid-winter tomatoes...

Oh yes I see what you mean, compared to labour. I expect the muck digger was glad to be in work in the dark months and that job at least would have kept him warm.

good idea MKG. I've been a bit overenthusiastic on the seed sowing this year so will soon be throwing plants in every direction.
If it ever warms up again that is. Am wondering how a cuc plant on top might affect spuds growing at the base. Seeing as I'd probably be giving the extra plants away I'll build up the heap and try. Don't slugs in the heap eat the plants?

Ah - that's where our carefully trained frogs come in useful

Mike

seasidegirl wrote:Oddsox I agree that in those days labour was cheap and now it isn't but don't agree that heat isn't expensive now. Especially for people who haven't yet got wind and solar this could be a useful solution. For starting seeds, which need consistent temperature which might not always happen if not windy and sun doesn't shine at night. Ok I suppose you can store electricity in a battery but we don't all have this technology.

Umm, it wasn't me that said that, it was that Scottish bloke.
Also I probably should have pointed out that growing stuff out of season is my hobby, and as with other hobbies the expenses are usually ignored or at least quietly forgotten about.
The difference with this hobby though is you get to eat something tasty in the end (hopefully)

EDIT.
The only reason I am using a wind turbine is because I have one surplus to requirements and I like to play with things like that.
But as the heating cable is only 37 watts, if I were to use it on mains electricity and it was on all the time, it would cost me 9 cents a day to run at our hyper-inflated Irish electricity prices.
Not exactly expensive.

There you are Jerry .............
It's 4 feet by 2 feet and 16 inch tall sides (sorry I'm not metricated) and made out of 3/4" shuttering ply.
The raw edges of the ply are capped with electrical conduit (the non-sticky sort) and the conduit covers are screwed to the long edge top to stop the 4 sheets of glass from sliding off.
By next winter it will have a low wattage gro-lite tube fixed to the apex.

If I used mains leccy it would cost an additional 3 cents a day on cloudy days, so 12c with heating, or about 9 pence per day in your money.
A lot cheaper than buying a turbine.

Nice job,Tony. With all your out of season tomato stuff I'd presumed it would be tall enough to get 2or 3 Tom plants in,D'you reckon that would work? BW.

If they were dwarf tomatoes like the ones I grow on my windowsills, I don't see why not.
You would have to be a bit careful with ventilation though.
But I prefer to grow my winter toms indoors.

My hotbed was designed for growing salad carrots, hence the 12" soil depth

Hmm, would this work in a builders bag ? the cubic meter size ? bet that would generate a lot of compost. Think I could make space for something that big, and it would be sort of tidy, not spilling out at least. Would just horse manure, from stables using wood shavings and some straw rot down with not much green stuff added ? I dont have much lawn to mow and all clippings end up as mulch. Altho there would be some green stuff from garden after chooks have pecked it over.

Anyone got a spare builders bag ? think I have used all of mine, need to check.

Sorry Odsox I got muddled with the quotes.

The Heligan hotbeds are used for pineapples, but in Victorian times they used them for peas, strawberries etc. anything normally grown in the UK but out of season really. The pineapple pits were also glazed for added warmth.