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lycia wrote:Does this look like the fish - the two at the front?
The one at the back is a Bullhead.

those arent salmonids... trout and salmon have a fleshy adipose fin between the dorsal and tail fin. Would be doubtful they are minnows either. If they have barbels on the chin they could be loaches. The mottled markings are consistent with stone loaches, and the geographical distribution pattern matches.

Did you find out what they are yet? They're an unusual colour but they look like juvenile salmonids to me. The large pectoral fins give it away. Do they have an adipose fin (small fleshy lobe between the dorsal and tail fin)? If they do they're definitely salmonids and not cyprinids.

If they are salmonids they will most likely be a lot bigger than 5 inches if they have been in there for a few years.

adamaki wrote:Did you find out what they are yet? They're an unusual colour but they look like juvenile salmonids to me. The large pectoral fins give it away. Do they have an adipose fin (small fleshy lobe between the dorsal and tail fin)? If they do they're definitely salmonids and not cyprinids.

If you are referring to the photo in lycia's post these are definitely not juvenile salmonids. I work with these things daily and that's definitely not what they are. There's no parr marks along the sides for a start. If I have missed another photo (my browser is quite old and has a tendency to omit photos from forum posts) then apologies.

narmour wrote:If you are referring to the photo in lycia's post these are definitely not juvenile salmonids. I work with these things daily and that's definitely not what they are. There's no parr marks along the sides for a start. If I have missed another photo (my browser is quite old and has a tendency to omit photos from forum posts) then apologies.

Yes I work with them too. I agree that parr marks would be expected so it's strange that they don't have them. However it is possible they could've lost their parr marks and are young adults (albeit very small).

I am still not a hundred percent clear what they are. The photo on here is exactly what they are like and they have been the same size for a year or two.
They appear to live quite happily with the newts,water snails and other things in the pond.
Dont really see them in winter just in summer when they appear to race around chasing each other.
I never feed them so the pond seems to have its own successful eco-climate so to speak.

adamaki wrote:

narmour wrote:If you are referring to the photo in lycia's post these are definitely not juvenile salmonids. I work with these things daily and that's definitely not what they are. There's no parr marks along the sides for a start. If I have missed another photo (my browser is quite old and has a tendency to omit photos from forum posts) then apologies.

Yes I work with them too. I agree that parr marks would be expected so it's strange that they don't have them. However it is possible they could've lost their parr marks and are young adults (albeit very small).

Even without parr marks the markings are nothing like salmonids. Also the white and red spots are nothing like I've ever seen on any of our specimens. And the fact that they have stopped growing as small fish closes the book on salmonids for me.

It's more likely this. Phoxinus bigerri. An Iberian minnow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phoxi ... by-dpc.jpg

The distribution doesn't match as it is typically found in mainland Europe in France and Spain but, what with climate change it's not beyond the realms of impossibility that warmer water species can be introduced and thrive in the UK. There are plenty of records to suggest that it's geographical range is spreading on mainland Europe so it is certainly adaptable. Habitat is described as streams and creeks in foothills with clear and cold water, and gravel to stone bottom.

Oh, and it seems the white spots are spawning turbercles, a spawning characteristic seen in the males, probably as a result of hormonal imbalances. These are characteristic of the whole minnow family.

The stream they came out of is clear and cold so its possible. They both have the white spots,one more than the other,we have never seen baby fish so it's possible they could both be males.

Interesting identification. But in a British river? Well, it's possible (and they certainly look like that species). If they are, you might be interested to know that they're now on the endangered species list.

Mike

It's not beyond the realms of impossibility, studies are reporting populations of them appearing further north in Europe and all it takes is a migratory bird to carry a few eggs across the channel attached to their legs and hey presto. Stranger things have happened. Whatever it is, it's definitely Phoxinus spp, because of the white spawning rash. It's definitely not Phoxinus phoxinus, which is the one you would expect to see in our waters.

According to the International Union for Conservation of Nature, Phoxinus biggeri is of Least Concern on the red list.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/135542/0

Look like minnows. When I was a kid (Midlands) I caught lots of them and put them in a pond. They can grow to 5 inch, though I don't ever recall any white spots on any of them.