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Boboff is right - glyphosphate is the best of the bunch when it comes to weed killers and it does break down very quickly (about 7-10 days) in the soil. I use it as a last resort, though I don't spray it with gay abandon. However, it won't get rid of the tough perennials on its own.

When I cleared a largish area of brambles, nettles, docks & thistles a few years back, I burned it in the autumn, dosed it with glyphosphate in the spring when the first growth appeared, then covered it with cardboard for the summer. In the autumn I took up the card and dug out what roots I could.

The first season I planted potatoes because the high level of cultivation really helps clear the ground. I still got a profusion of nettles and brambles, but it was soft, sappy, growth which I chopped off and pulled up.

This is now the third season, and I still get some optimistically poking their heads up, but I have largely won. If I stopped for a season, I've no doubt they'd be back.

diggernotdreamer wrote:I don't think there is a wrong or right way to do any sort of gardening and growing. It all depends on what time, stamina and method you prefer. I do what I do because it works for me and I hate digging, some people like digging, some people dig because that is the way they have always done it. I tried it once and didn't like it, but then I only had one child as well

We've only got one as well. Suffice to say that after double digging out 6 annual beds I too hate it!! Needs must.

Here is a section of pasture we are bringing into the veg garden



On the L is ground grazed by the rabbits, limed and covered in black plastic for 8 weeks

On the R the ground was treated the same minus the mulching

The hens can hear the rustle of the plastic being lifted and go mad to get at all the slugs and grubs that are to be found there

I have had my allotment plot nearly four years now.
At last I am winning on the perennial weed front.
Constant attention, digging and regular hoeing does the trick . Little and often is best. Get the little blighters when they are seedlings. It makes life easier and you don't ever get to the stage where the weeds are large and difficult to remove. When I first had the plot it was very heavily overgrown with brambles , thistles and nettles. Hard work and constant cultivation has done the trick.
Good look with the never ending battle with the weeds . Perseverance will win in the end.

my friend has just borrowed some pigs to clear his veg garden
not sure this will help
but a great idea
his veg garden is half a field

The Riff-Raff Element wrote:Boboff is right - glyphosphate is the best of the bunch when it comes to weed killers and it does break down very quickly (about 7-10 days) in the soil. I use it as a last resort, though I don't spray it with gay abandon.

Some would say that if glyphosphate is the best of the bunch all the rest must be really bad

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... osate.aspx

Quote:
The Link Between Your Gut and the Toxicity of Glyphosate

The impact of gut bacteria on your health is becoming increasingly more well-understood and widely known. And here, we see how your gut bacteria once again play a crucial role in explaining why and how glyphosate causes health problems in both animals and humans. The authors explain:

“Glyphosate’s claimed mechanism of action in plants is the disruption of the shikimate pathway, which is involved with the synthesis of the essential aromatic amino acids, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan. The currently accepted dogma is that glyphosate is not harmful to humans or to any mammals because the shikimate pathway is absent in all animals.

However, this pathway is present in gut bacteria, which play an important and heretofore largely overlooked role in human physiology through an integrated biosemiotic relationship with the human host. In addition to aiding digestion, the gut microbiota synthesize vitamins, detoxify xenobiotics, and participitate in immune system homeostasis and gastrointestinal tract permeability. Furthermore, dietary factors modulate the microbial composition of the gut.”

As noted in the report, incidences of inflammatory bowel diseases and food allergies have substantially increased over the past decade. According to a recent CDC survey, one in 20 children now suffer from food allergies2 — a 50 percent increase from the late 1990’s. Incidence of eczema and other skin allergies have risen by 69 percent and now affect one in eight kids. Samsel and Seneff argue it is reasonable to suspect that glyphosate’s impact on gut bacteria may be contributing to these diseases and conditions.

I'm glad you don't spray it with gay abandon. I've used it too at times although not where food is grown but I'm thinking of trying not to use it at all if I can get away with it.


Pete

Thanks Pete, good find

Skippy wrote:
Some would say that if glyphosphate is the best of the bunch all the rest must be really bad

They are in my book!

The ideas in that article have been around for a while. The point is that glyphosphate employed correctly should never enter the human (or animal) food chain: surplus on the soil should be degraded by bacteria while that on / in dead plant matter will be destroyed as the plant rots down in the ground or in the compost heap.

All fine & dandy.

However, the "employed correctly" bit is key. There is evidence that glypho can persist in GM crops that resist it, safely protected from bacterial degradation by the plant's immune system. The parts that are eaten should never be sprayed, but who can offer a guarantee that this won't happen?

To be honest, I'm more worried about what might be coming in the next generation of GM. As predicted, weed species in contact with glypho resistant crops are acquiring resistance themselves, so work is now beginning on plants that can resist the application of a cocktail of herbicides. Of course, no-one can guarantee that this cocktail might be arriving on a plate near you in the future and no-one really has much idea what it might do in the human body.

At the risk of repeating myself, we see more incidence of allergies, intolerances and cancers / diseases of the alimentary canal than we used to and something is causing them. We might do well to find out what.

Whole heartedly agree jon. I for one don't believe all the hype about how good GM is

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott ... wer-yields

http://independentsciencenews.org/comme ... gmo-crops/

about the only thing certain in my view is that GM increases profits for the likes of monsanto.
Still try and think happy thoughts


Pete

We have just taken over a small 1/3 size allotment plot which has not had anything done to it for a couple of years at least. I has been strimmed but that's it.

I think I am going to have a go at this method of no dig bed making. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZugARiOJCQ

I hate digging

mamos

I have had to try and clear as much ground as possible in our first year here just to get a few crops in, so haven't had the luxury of time to cover with anything. Just using (as Clanpowell said) the 'double-dig' method, but probably wouldn't have managed it without a rotavator, making light work of it and making a third dig sometimes. I have a very steeply-banked garden that I am terracing as I work my way up the garden, getting the rotavator up to each new level should prove interesting! I saw a picture on google images of a terraced garden in Calfornia with miniature rail track and pulley system up one side, something for the future maybe....

Good weeds, just pulled some round " Paris" carrots, lovely about the size of a table tennis ball. No carrot fly. I think it's because the fly couldn't find the carrots hidden behind some spring onions and annual weeds. I didn't get round to weeding because of the weather and as they are too big too pull out without disturbing the carrots I think I'm just going to pull the carrots , onions and weeds together when I prepare for the next crop. Just had a good weeding session this morning, hopefully I can prepare a few beds tomorow and get some in on Friday. Happy weeding

doofaloofa wrote:Thanks Pete, good find

wish it was good, perhaps this is as well-
http://www.foeeurope.org/weed-killer-gl ... ope-130613


Quote:
Urine samples were collected from volunteers in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, France, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Macedonia, Malta, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, The Netherlands, and the UK. A total of 80/182 samples tested were found to contain glyphosate. Volunteers were all city-dwellers and included vegetarian and non-vegetarian diets. No two samples were tested from the same household. The samples were analysed by Dr Hoppe at Medical Laboratory Bremen in Germany.

Pete

The Vendée - where we live in France - has recently forbidden the use of all weed killers on verges and pavements. There is concern that excessive amounts are being washed into water courses via the gutters by the rain. This has been met by some howls of protest that there is no scientific evidence to support the move. Interestingly, the Vendée was amongst the first places some years ago to introduce a voluntary ban on neonicotinoid insecticides when concerns were raised about bees. There was no "evidence" for that either

Ooops!

Does make sense, I think I'll leave buying more!