A thumbs up for T***o

A chance to meet up with friends and have a chat - a general space with the freedom to talk about anything.
User avatar
Stonehead
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2432
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post: # 41640Post Stonehead »

I think we're up against it Muddy! :(

Loyalty cards are not really about loyalty (consolidation as it's known in the business) to a particular chain, they're about surveillance, data mining and personally targeted marketing.

When you fill in the form to get your loyalty card, you provide the company with a wide range of personal information that they would find hard to obtain legally through other sources. By offering you bargains, the company induces you to part with this very valuable information.

I've had a look at a range of loyalty card brochures, and they ask for things like your employment status, your employment type, what type of housing you live in (owned outright, mortgage, private rental, public rental etc), the number of people in your household, the number under the age of 18, the number of cars you own, the amount of mileage you do in a year, whether you're pregnant (and when you expect the baby), your dietary preferences, and more.

Then, every time you use the loyalty card, your purchases and how you paid for them (cash, debit, credit, cheque, store card etc) are added to the database profile that you started by providing your details when you applied for the card.

Studying that database profile tells the company which stores you use, when you use them, how you use them, if you do your main shop on a particular day of the week and what your purchases are, when, where and how often you convenience shop, what specific menus you buy for (sot hey can pick up special occasions for instance), how many people are in your house (toilet roll consumption is a good indicator of this), if you've just had a child, if your children are starting primary or secondary school, whether you're going on holiday, and much more.

This has enormous value for the retailer as they can then target you very specifically and send direct marketing to you that is personal to you.

Say, for example, that they spot that you buy a particular type of organic back bacon and they're planning a new niche market (and more expensive) launch of honey cured, hickory smoked organic back bacon. You'll get a letter in the post, asking if you'd like to try it and offering you loyalty points if you buy it.

You think, okay, bargain! When you're next in the store, you buy the new bacon, it's not bad and discover the loyalty bonus is going to apply for several weeks. You get in the habit of buying the more expensive bacon and probably don't even notice when the loyalty points offer ends. And in a month or two, you probably won't notice the gradual hike in price either.

One of the dream customers for supermarkets is a family of four or five, mother does the shopping, father holds down a well-paid job and they have two or three teenage children (preferably girls). You're talking a weekly spend well in excess of £100 and usually around £150, faddish eating, lots of distractions for mum while she's shopping (so she doesn't notice the price of lots of things), and lots of very targeted marketing. Get her to spend an extra 2 to 5 per cent a week and she'll barely notice it, but multiply that weekly shop by all the similarly profiled people and then by 52 weeks and you have a nice little boost in sales and profits.

It's why T***o started stocking bird feeders and seed. When they analysed the data from loyalty cards, they found that a hard core of serious organic buyers would also buy feeders and seed when they were available. So green, bird-friendly people became another niche market to be exploited. If you don't see bird feeders on the shelves, then you know you're not living in an area where people buy much in the way of organic food!

Loyalty cards are also about segregation. I can't remember the exact figures but about one in five supermarket customers deliver 80% of the retailers' profits. So, like the banks that charge you fees (or reduce your interest) if you deposit less than £1500-1800 a month, the retailers reward their target customers and actively exclude the others.

We, for instance, are what is known as cherry-pickers. We're very focused, work to a tight budget, ignore most of the premium lines and tend to buy the most cost-effective staples. (I'll leave out the Free Trade and organic stuff that we do buy to keep things simple.)

To push people like us out, the retailer will increase the price of own-brand staples (yes, I've mentioned that this has happened up here), reduce their stock of staples (yes, they've done this too), or put the sort of items we buy in obscure places with minimal customer exposure (yes, done this, too).

So, the basic staple lines of lentils, rice, split peas, etc are stocked in small amounts and tucked away between other items. But, at the end of the aisles is a big display of premium packaged staples - rice, lentils, split peas etc - that are marketed as healthy, whole-food eating and at significantly more expensive prices.

The supermarkets say it's not about social exclusion. They say it's focusing on the most profitable customers. Ha!

Loyalty cards are also used for finding new markets, managing the stocking of fresh and perishable foods, testing new aisle layouts and displays, grooming customers to buy more high-profit lines, and testing price rises.

What happens with price rises is that the supermarket will hike the price up on a range and look for changes in buying patterns. If people continue buying the price-hiked item, then the price stays up.

If people shift to a different item, then either its price can go up too or the original item can be shifted to a special offer - which is actually higher than the original price. If that doesn't work and the store needs to clear stock before starting again, then you'll find a bogof offered.

Going back to the dream family I mentioned earlier, the aim for the supermarket will be to use their personal data profile to get them shopping frequently, to respond directly to offers, and to impulse buy as much as possible. In doing so, they've moved from being loyal customers to being addicted customers.

And if you think that's intrusive, then you should also be aware that while companies do not share your personal profiles with each other, they do share the analysis of your profile.

This means that by comparing your profile analysis across several loyalty cards, companies can target potential customers and target them with offers designed to draw them away from other companies.

The end result is that big business has huge amounts of data stored on vast swathes of the population - in many cases, much more information than is held by the government or its agencies. And people have volunteered it!

And it could go further if the US example is anything to go by. Police and security agencies have been accessing loyalty card databases to identify potential terrorists through profiling techniques.

As the authorities identify terrorists, they profile their entire lives including their shopping (and reading) habits. These are then cross-referenced to retailer databases (access is gained either voluntarily or via warrants) and then used to identify potential "terrorists". So, if you eat a lot of Middle Eastern food, then you can expect to come under scrutiny.

The reason I mentioned reading is that libraries also track what you've borrowed and when. So when it turns out you've been reading about the Middle East (or reading the Koran), buying Middle Eastern food, travelling through or into areas which contain potential "targets" and your phone records show you've been calling people with Middle Eastern names, then the authorities start assuming you're a potential threat.

This may appear to have taken us away from loyalty cards, but stick with me for a second or two more.

The fear of terrorism combined with the fear of crime, then assists the supermarkets in taking their loyalty card surveillance and analysis to the next level - RFID chips.

These are already being rolled out in the UK as a security measure - to stop people stealing razor blades for example. To make things safer for us, retailers plan to put these chips on everything they sell - which is convenient for them as it adds an extra level of data to mine.

The aim is to have the RFID chips not on the packaging - which could be discarded by thieves - but in the item itself (in the label on a pair of jeans for example). This would enable the companies to see what you wear and when, and even have a fair idea of where you bought it.

And even if there is pressure to have the RFID chip disabled at the checkout, they can still use them to follow you through the store as you do the shopping - to see what path you take, where you stop, what you look at, what you pick up and reject, etc.

And so it goes on and on. If you've stuck with me so far, then hopefully you've learned to be a little more wary - even if you don't want to go as far as we do and not have a single loyalty card and only ever pay in cash.
Image

ina
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:16 pm
Location: Kincardineshire, Scotland

Post: # 41642Post ina »

T***o is also the worst in the way they prevent other companies from coming in... Most big supermarkets have a hold on property on which they prevent development of "competition"; T***o holds, I believe, a lot more than all the others together.

If all the shops have loyalty cards - well, that defeats the object, doesn't it? None of them will be getting any more customers they would have had anyway, if they have the same "advantage" of points wherever they go. In that case I would much rather buy everything a bit cheaper and decide for myself where and how I spend the saved pennies...

Years ago, I did have a T***o card. (Yes, there was a time when I had not much of an option to buy anywhere else, plus I wasn't as aware of the rip-off they are as I am now.) I remember being sent those vouchers for stuff - i.e., with my hard-earned vouchers I was allowed to buy things cheaper that I would never want to buy in the first place: Get £3 off if you spend £10 or more on fruit and veg! Well, as a single person with next to no money (student at that time) I couldn't afford to buy that much... Veggie ready meals half price with this voucher! (Of course, they knew I was vegetarian...) But I never buy ready meals! And with this voucher, get two six-packs of Mars bars for the price of one! BUT I DON'T LIKE MARS BARS!!!!!
So, in effect, those vouchers didn't give me any financial advantage. Don't know whether they've changed this system by now and give you "real" cash off.
Ina
I'm a size 10, really; I wear a 20 for comfort. (Gina Yashere)

Shirley
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 7025
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:05 am
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Post: # 41643Post Shirley »

That was a great read Stonehead! Thank you.

It is a worry that big business has so much information about people.

Websites often ask for this sort of information too - with the lure of a free to enter draw at the end of surveys etc. I dont' fill them in - you just don't know who you are providing information too half the time.

I reckon that by using cash you are also a bit more aware of what you are spending - it's easy just to hand over a card at the end of the shopping and worry about it later, but you only take a certain amount of cash out with you then you can only spend what you have.

Sounds like a good budgeting idea actually!

I'm having a supermarket free month starting on the 1st December - it was suggested over on Neeps by Ina in response to the buy nothing day thread. I don't think it will be that difficult for me to do. I will need to arrange for a milk delivery though - do they keep records too? :lol:

Library - we do use ours from time to time and it's a computerised system too like you said. The records are there for a long time too - we went back after 5 years away and I was presented with a bill for books that they said were not returned by my then 5 year old. As it happens they HAD been returned but they still gave me a confrontation in the middle of the school library which was incredibly embarrassing. That's another story though. I wonder what I'll be labelled with - I've had the local biodiversity plan, a book about old donside, the friends of the earth handbook, leo hickmans book, and Delia Smith's winter cook book.
Shirley
NEEPS! North East Eco People's Site

My photos on Flickr

Don't forget to check out the Ish gallery on Flickr - and add your own photos there too. http://www.flickr.com/groups/selfsufficientish/

ina
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 9:16 pm
Location: Kincardineshire, Scotland

Post: # 41646Post ina »

Stoney got his post in while I was still writing mine... (Damn the job, it's so disruptive! :wink: )

Hey, I hadn't read yet that you were taking me up on the supermarket free December - I'm with you!
Ina
I'm a size 10, really; I wear a 20 for comfort. (Gina Yashere)

User avatar
PurpleDragon
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Post: # 41663Post PurpleDragon »

Stoney, I have been telling my consumerist friends this stuff for ages, and they don't believe me. They think I'm one of these conspiracy-theorist-nutters. :?
PurpleDragon
~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no snooze button on a hungry cat

User avatar
Stonehead
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 2432
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:31 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post: # 41664Post Stonehead »

PurpleDragon wrote:Stoney, I have been telling my consumerist friends this stuff for ages, and they don't believe me. They think I'm one of these conspiracy-theorist-nutters. :?
Just tell them you're a pragmatic realist. Works for me! :mrgreen:

I also assume that I'm being monitored to some extent. That may sound like paranoia but once you add up business databases, government databases, speed cameras, traffic cameras, security cameras with facial recognition software, internet use, cash withdrawls from ATMs, business and governmental profiling etc, then I think it does pay to be a little careful.

However, I wouldn't go overboard and retreat to my shack in the hills with its bunker and munitions stash while looking out for helicopters and men in black. Well, not yet!! :mrgreen:

As for what they'd get from my reading habits, what profile would come from my past month's reading: Permaculture, God and the State, Civil Liberties - cases and materials, The Handmade Loaf, The Pugilist at Rest, Folk Devils and Moral Panics, Longbow - A Social and Military History, A Guide to Stock Fencing and A Guide to Traditional Pig Keeping.

Add this website and, from looking at my browser history, websites that I've used for researching various things - Good Energy (the electricity supplier, the reason why I'm not working outside and more on this later), nuclear energy, phone tapping, illegal access of records by private detectives, sex discrimination in education, how to make a longbow, biogas production and the G20 protests in Australia. Among other things!

Anyone profling me would probably give up and just say "he's daft"!

:mrgreen:
Image

User avatar
DaisyDaisy
Tom Good
Tom Good
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:11 am
Location: Hampshire, UK
Contact:

Post: # 41693Post DaisyDaisy »

I was working at the geek end of retail when loyalty cards were introduced and, yes, the information gathered is certainly used to create a profile of you (so you get offers to entice to you buy more & other products) and a pattern of how you shop. But even if you don't have a loyalty card your "basket" can be analysed to help the company determine what the best product profile would be for a shop/town/region (I seem to recall that one of these stores suddenly found out that ant powder doesn't sell in Scotland - ?) or even for a particular period of the year - one not particularly intelligent inventory system suddenly identified that bacon was selling REALLY well one week so automatically ordered masses of bacon to be stocked in all its stores.... until a bright spark realised that this had been the week leading up to Christmas when bacon sells much better than at other time of the year.

I have no problems with using a loyalty card when I shop in that card's store, but wouldn't go out of my way to shop at that store and certainly don't use the vouchers to buy anything that I wouldn't usually buy. It helps that I HATE shopping and rely on my list to keep me focussed on what I should be taking home. I guess the only time I stray from the list is if I notice something that I usually buy that is on a very good special offer, when I might stick up a little bit.

So for me, it's about knowing (and accepting) what they might be doing with the info but using it to my advantage as much as I can - I tend to use my loyalty card to pay for luxury items for a special meal (Christmas, birthday...). And when I've had to drive a lot for work I've collected points for a food parcel of goodies for someone who might not otherwise get them (no, I'm not that virtuous - it makes me feel like work is paying for it :wink:)

At the end of the day isn't it up to the individual to use the information that they have to decide whether or not to use it, and maybe for us to make sure that this more hidden side of loyalty cards is kept in the public's eye so that everyone can decide for themselves?
:flower: :flower:

User avatar
PurpleDragon
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Post: # 41700Post PurpleDragon »

:lol: My DH thinks I'm losing the plot. He keeps on coming up with ways to distance me from researching all this sort of thing - I think the icing on the cake was at the weekend when I had him out collecting a trailer of manure for my plot. I don't think the worms helped much.
PurpleDragon
~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no snooze button on a hungry cat

User avatar
red
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 6513
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:59 pm
Location: Devon UK
Contact:

Post: # 41702Post red »

Muddypause wrote:Yes and no.

Waitrose is part of the John Lewis Parnership, and as such all memebrs of staff own a share of the company, so in a way it has a more acceptable existance.

The Co-Op is owned, well co-operatively - ie, there aren't a bunch of uninvolved shareholders who's only interest is the return on their investment. The Co-Op also has to conform to other co-operative stuff, the nature of which
well this is why i said big supermarket chains. I don't regard co-op as big.

I'm lucky now - as I have moved to a village and am within walking distance of a co-op so can afford to feel good about my shopping, its not a big supermarket, I'm keeping it local, co-op have good rep etc etc. and so thats what I do - I don't do big supermarkets anymore.

but as I said - I'm lucky - where we were before we were in the sticks.. there were no local co-ops, i would have had to drive for 40 minutes to get to one! (and WAITROSE?!!? they don't have them down here), I went to butchers for meat, fishmongers for fish, grew my own veg and supplemented that with veggie box. yet still there are some items.. such as cat food, toilet roll etc, that needs to be got from somewhere. and here it is s the supermarket. I'm in a minority.. most people neither have the time not inclination to visit local shops.

I agree - some of the tatics that big businesses use are really stinky. I don't approve. and yet you cannot point the finger at only one. Marks and Spencer have a terrible rep for the way they treat their suppliers.
Red

I like like minded people... a bit like minded anyway.. well people with bits of their minds that are like the bits of my mind that I like...

my website: colour it green

etsy shop

blog

User avatar
Muddypause
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 1905
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: Urban Berkshire, UK (one day I'll find the escape route)

Post: # 41703Post Muddypause »

Supermarkets around here also now have a chap in a uniform with a hand held computer who records the registration numbers of the cars in the car park. A couple of times I've asked what this is all about, to be told that it is simply to do with the 2 hour maximum stay regulation. I don't necessarily believe that is the whole truth.

What do you think happens to that information? From the hand help computer, downloaded at the end of every day into a database? They can add to their records the sort of car you drive, how often you change it, how the length of stay in the car park compares to the time you spent in the supermarket (have you been shopping elsewhere), how far you have driven to get to the store...

There was a chap on Radio 4's Start The Week this morning talking about this sort of stuff. I only heard bits of it, but ListenAgain is here, and it's repeated later on this evening.
DaisyDaisy wrote:At the end of the day isn't it up to the individual to use the information that they have to decide whether or not to use it
Yes, but...
and maybe for us to make sure that this more hidden side of loyalty cards is kept in the public's eye so that everyone can decide for themselves?
Unfortunately, this is so easily defeated - "It's for your own protection", "It enables us to help you buy the things that you want", "It's necessary because of the terrorist threat", "It's to safeguard your consumer rights", or "It's part of our obligation under the Data Protection Act".

No. "It's to help us make more profit, squeeze out the competition, force our suppliers to accept lower income, keep wages down, make everyone buy from a limited range, disenfrachise the unions, increase the amount of 'stuff' people consume..."
Stew

Ignorance is essential

User avatar
red
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 6513
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:59 pm
Location: Devon UK
Contact:

Post: # 41705Post red »

Millymollymandy wrote:Is there anything wrong with collecting points on a card? I got my bicycle that way! Every supermarket and mini market (where I live) has loyalty cards so it's not something specific to one to make you shop there above others.
I don't think so - its a matter of beating them at their own game! its a deal.. they collect data on you and you get something back. so long as you dont let yourself be influenced into buying something you would not normally, then they fail in their game and you win.

I think they should be more open about what a 'loyalty' card really is, but once you know, its up to you to decide if you mind.
Red

I like like minded people... a bit like minded anyway.. well people with bits of their minds that are like the bits of my mind that I like...

my website: colour it green

etsy shop

blog

User avatar
PurpleDragon
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Post: # 41710Post PurpleDragon »

Muddypause wrote:Supermarkets around here also now have a chap in a uniform with a hand held computer who records the registration numbers of the cars in the car park. A couple of times I've asked what this is all about, to be told that it is simply to do with the 2 hour maximum stay regulation. I don't necessarily believe that is the whole truth.
Near where my folks stay there is a big supermarket that has a maximum stay thing in their car park. You take a ticket when you drive in, the same as you do with a multi-storey type car park, and the barrier lifts to let you in. On the way out, if you have been there for longer than 2 hours, you have to pay to get out. IMO this is honest - the wee radar gun thingy freaks me out and I would not park there / shop there anymore.
PurpleDragon
~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no snooze button on a hungry cat

2steps
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:39 am
Location: Grimsby
Contact:

Post: # 41733Post 2steps »

stoney thanks for that post :) very informative

the only loyatly card I have is for co op and I rarely remember to use it anyway. I have a debt card I use often as part of my co op bank account.

I had a T***o loyatly card years ago when I first left home as my parents drove me there when they went shopping and I didn't know there was any reason I shouldn't of had one. Had it for about a year I think and don't think I ever used any of the vouchers. often they'd be for things I'd buy but not brands I use as I buy own brand stuff

User avatar
colhut
Barbara Good
Barbara Good
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Devon

Post: # 41753Post colhut »

Not all data mining that goes on is entirely bad. I LIKE that amazon recommends stuff to me, I have found new things I didn't know I'd like and wouldn't have stumbled across either. I have also laughed at some of the connections that their system has made.
How hard can it be, how long can it take. What could POSSIBLY go wrong

Shirley
A selfsufficientish Regular
A selfsufficientish Regular
Posts: 7025
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:05 am
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Post: # 41755Post Shirley »

That's a good point Colhut. I was thinking that lots of online places do similar

I guess one could argue as to whether they are expanding our reading range or emptying our wallets by persuading us to buy something that we wouldn't ordinarily have bought.

Personally I'm happy to have suggestions... the final decision as to whether to buy lies with me.
Shirley
NEEPS! North East Eco People's Site

My photos on Flickr

Don't forget to check out the Ish gallery on Flickr - and add your own photos there too. http://www.flickr.com/groups/selfsufficientish/

Post Reply