The Education System

[Susie]

Sounds like some Protestant Work-ethic inspired Hell to me....Sit down,Drink wine, Relax..........

Oddly enough you're not the first person to have said that to me .

[Green Aura]

Sounds like some Protestant Work-ethic inspired Hell to me....Sit down,Drink wine, Relax..........

No Protestants in this house OJ (but don't let my Dad know or he'll be spinning) I do, however try hard to do my daily Sudoku quicker than yesterday - fortunately the evenings when I do what you suggest above mean the next morning I usually add several minutes so I've not entered negative time yet!

[oldjerry]

I've tried Sudolequeque,or whatever,but itseems to take quite alot of concentration,and the ability to add up.I appreciate that in the north,constant activity must save a bit on the heating bills,but I feel work is a highly overated pastime,and to link back a bit,I learnt this at school. The real devil doesn't make work for idle hands,he just invented guilt.

[pelmetman]

To get back on topic...........Is a degree any use to the bulk of the kids being conned into paying for one?

Our is it as I suspect the education industry milking it for all they are worth?????

[oldjerry]

Hmm..well now a mortgage is increasinlgy out of reach to many would be homeownersthe state has devised another way of ensuring that people work their butts off,breakfast clubs and after school clubs for their children,long term debt,ensuring ........you work.In a truly wondrous Machiavellian twist,this has been devised by a lot of late middle aged men who got their degrees for free! It would seem fairer to me if THEY were to, retrospectively, pay for their degrees (including interest accrued).

[niknik]

To get back on topic...........Is a degree any use to the bulk of the kids being conned into paying for one?

Our is it as I suspect the education industry milking it for all they are worth?????

few degrees hese days are worth the paper they´re written on , I think!

get a degree, and become unemployable........ in many cases, as now too highly qualified for many jobs, and too much competition for the others.

that´s not to say however that people shouldn´t study, for interest´s sake, but only a few degrees lead directly to employment, many need further qualifications anyway!
and what use is a degree in studying David Beckham ??

Julie......... I hate poor spelling...... but make many typos, ( and have a dodgy keyboard which doesnt help matters.

Now, not evreyone can spell, BUT:::::::: shop notices , etc, well they could make an effort there at least!

Learning parrot fashion, is till the best way , especially for times tables. and I still do nearly al my mental arithmetic in French , as I livd and was educated there till the age of 13, and any understanding I have of grammar is due to the incessant repetitive
teaching of it I underwent in France!

[niknik]

just another thing.......... spellchecker is , in many cases, only of use to those that can spell!., helping correct typos......
For those that can´t to start of with, choosing the correct option can be tasking!

and for those that haven´t come across it...this little gem rather sums it up nicely

A Little Poem Regarding Computer Spell Checkers...

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

[Lilyfae]

There is a need for cooperation and competition. But I think the biggest emphasis on competition should be against oneself - to improve on our own )

This is what I'm writing my masters dissertation on!
it's called ipsative learning/assessment where you get students to reflect on their learning, effort and outcomes and identify & address what's working and where they need to improve, my students get a traffic light according to their 'work outcomes' - green if above prior performance, Amber is same, red is below & my god does it put a rocket up the kids to get greens ( I encourage healthy competition as it doesn't matter if you are a low-achiever or a high achiever if you have improved that's the important bit & everyone who improves is praised- so the smart kids have to improve too rather than rest on 'good grades') effort is through the roof, bar the inevitable few who dont buy in but that's inevitable in any social mixture ( I just try to get them other ways)

However I must say, this is not standard practice in schools but Is being heavily advised by educational experts (classroom & academic)

[oldjerry]

it doesn't matter if you are a low-achiever or a high achiever if you have improved that's the important bit & everyone who improves is praised- so the smart kids have to improve too rather than rest on 'good grades') effort is through the roof,



Despite changes in the education system, Gradgrind still rules!



the inevitable few who dont buy in but that's inevitable in any social mixture


But Sissy is still alive and well!!

[pelmetman]

You all seem to have missed my point ............The education system as it stands only caters for the academic kids and treats the vocationally gifted as second class

But seeing as this thread is attracting comments mostly from people employed or have been employed in the education industry its not surprising

[MKG]

I have never, ever, been employed in education. I've done a lot of unpaid stuff there but, hey, that's not the same. But Gradgrind is one of my abidingly favourite characters.

"The education system as it stands only caters for the academic kids and treats the vocationally gifted as second class". Even after all of this argument? I'm surprised that this view could still hold despite the protestations of several teachers who have responded to this thread.

(And, Boboff, I haven't forgotten your test papers - it's just that you put a lot of them up )

Mike

[JulieSherris]

............The education system as it stands only caters for the academic kids and treats the vocationally gifted as second class

And this isn't a new outlook, nor is it confined to the education system.

Hubby left school at 16 & went straight into British Steel to a 5 year apprenticeship for electrical engineering. He did this against the wishes of his parents, who were so ashamed of him & his 'blue collar' chosen path. It didn't help that they lived next door to a pair of 'straight A' kids either.

So, roll on to 2003 & his Mum is at ours on a visit. Andy comes home from work an hour late after an urgent breakdown of a robot. (He builds, maintains & programmes the big buggers) She starts to lament his chosen career choice yet again, saying that if he had become a doctor 'like David next door', he could have been on 58 thou a year.
Andy laughed so much I thought he'd explode..... he then went on to explain to his mum that his last P60 showed him as earning 97.5 thou. AND he didn't have to be on call & wasn't surrounded by sick germy folk

See... even dirty sparkies can earn a decent wage

[pelmetman]

See... even dirty sparkies can earn a decent wage

Very true Julie ................but my other beef with the academics is that they have effectively stitched up the public sector So that only people with degrees can hope to attain top positions

When I left school in 74 I was still able to join the Navy without any qualifications ...but I hear nowdays even to join up as cannon fodder you need qualifications

Maybe this explains why the British public sector is such a basket case ....Its full of academics who confuse education with intelligence

[niknik]

who confuse education with intelligence

I think that´s the real problem!

Al systems should be totally revamped.

Basic skills ( 3rs) for all, and then "education"according to individuals, intelligence and interests

[Zech]

To get back on topic...........Is a degree any use to the bulk of the kids being conned into paying for one?

Our is it as I suspect the education industry milking it for all they are worth?????

The education industry? It's the government that insisted 50% of the population should go to university (and I once met the bloke who came up with the idea - completely crackers, unsurprisingly). It's the lecturers that have to cope with this massive increase in student numbers (without corresponding increases in funding, by the way), many of whom really shouldn't be at university and are only there because it's the 'done thing'.

Sticking half the young people into universities keeps the unemployment figures down, never mind what it does to the value of a degree, or the prospects of all those who recognise that university is not for them, only to find that employers won't consider anyone who doesn't have a degree.