First crop of (miscellaneous) grapes in the greenhouse... determined to make wine with the juice. have a small fruit press... pressed grapes. what a useless tool ! Screw it down as tight as you can and get half a glassful of juice... unscrew it and clean out the residue... multiple whole grapes survived....persevered though and got a couple of litres.. added yeast... then the juice went mouldy, so I filtered it (sieve, + jelly bag) and pasteurised it in the microwave ! added more yeast... then more ... not much happening at all... bit of a total waste of time...
any advice?
Grape juice
Re: Grape juice
http://www.selfsufficientish.com/forum/ ... 22&t=20841dave45 wrote:First crop of (miscellaneous) grapes in the greenhouse... determined to make wine with the juice. have a small fruit press... pressed grapes. what a useless tool ! Screw it down as tight as you can and get half a glassful of juice... unscrew it and clean out the residue... multiple whole grapes survived....persevered though and got a couple of litres.. added yeast... then the juice went mouldy, so I filtered it (sieve, + jelly bag) and pasteurised it in the microwave ! added more yeast... then more ... not much happening at all... bit of a total waste of time...
any advice?
Re: Grape juice
Yes I saw that, and was already thinking of whizzing them next time.. but I'm suspicious what effect boiling grape juice will have on winemaking. Real winemakers don't boil to get juice do they? Apparently they use some form of mincing device and chuck em in stalks an all.
Re: Grape juice
I never made wine from the raw grapes, and some of the stuff made by the Italians was downright awful. I have made many batches from the condensed gtallon concentrate, which was similar to purchased stuff. I suspect pasteurizing, such as I do, is done to the concentrate, otherwise it wouldn't keep.dave45 wrote:Yes I saw that, and was already thinking of whizzing them next time.. but I'm suspicious what effect boiling grape juice will have on winemaking. Real winemakers don't boil to get juice do they? Apparently they use some form of mincing device and chuck em in stalks an all.
Wine making, reduced to its essentials is actually the production of alcohol. I suspect dumping a few ounces of alcohol into a liter of the pressure canned juice would probably be superior to the long fermentation process, and most people would consider it as having a nice flavor, and if they are real drinkers, one could boost the alcoholic content, and make all happy.
Being an old soldier, I never drink the stuff except to get gloriously drunk. All commercial alcoholic drinks have a most abysmal taste, except for the liquors, which is only because of the sugar added. After the first glassful, one could probably pour urine into the bottle and most people wouldn't detect the difference.
Re: Grape juice
I don't think I agree with your opinion here ! Sugar is a preservative in the right concentration so may be enough for grape concentrate without pasteurisation. As I have found, straight grape juice aint enough concentration
Re: Grape juice
I always thought sugar+yeast (Both of which occur naturally in grapes) = Alcohol. But then I mostly just drink the stuff .
I do know that the stuff made by my in- laws,and friends, all of whom are Italian,is excellent.
I do know that the stuff made by my in- laws,and friends, all of whom are Italian,is excellent.
Re: Grape juice
In wine-making areas of the world, wine is indeed made from the juice of pressed grapes - as is, no sugar added, nothing else added either and no further treatment. Of course, those places have the climate to produce masses of sugar in the grapes and the right yeasts sit on the grapes quite naturally. In cooler climates, the grapes grow less sweet and more acidic (think German wines). In climates where grapes really shouldn't grow at all - as in all but the southernmost counties of the UK - it's questionable whether even greenhouse-grown grapes would achieve the sugar concentration needed to make a wine unaided.
Even so, it's worth a try, although you'll probably have to add some sugar. You'd need to know, at least approximately, how much sugar is already in the juice. The best way is by the use of a hydrometer (those vinometer things are worse than useless), but you can do it by taste. A 12.5% wine contains 2.5 pounds of sugar in a gallon, so that's 5 ounces in a pint. So, put 5 ounces of sugar in a pint glass, add a squeeze of orange or lemon juice, top up with water, give it all a stir to dissolve the sugar, and then taste it. That'll give you a standard against which to assess the grape juice. Add sugar to the grape juice until it tastes about as sweet as the water. But don't add anything else to the grape juice apart from yeast.
There's certainly nothing wrong with pasteurising the grape juice to prevent that mould infection, although getting the yeast in there as quickly as possible would normally swamp any other beasties around. But if you DO pasteurise (which you did), you've whipped out all of the free oxygen which the yeast needs to start reproducing and build up a colony. Simple answer - put it back in. Give the juice a good shake or a vigorous stir.
Even without the sugar additions, there's no reason at all why your grape juice should not ferment perfectly healthily (as long as the added yeast is healthy).
Mike
PS Adding alcohol to grape juice will give you an alcoholic drink - but it won't be wine. The chemistry involved in yeast fermentation is massively more complex than simply making alcohol - there are all manner of reactions going on in there.
Even so, it's worth a try, although you'll probably have to add some sugar. You'd need to know, at least approximately, how much sugar is already in the juice. The best way is by the use of a hydrometer (those vinometer things are worse than useless), but you can do it by taste. A 12.5% wine contains 2.5 pounds of sugar in a gallon, so that's 5 ounces in a pint. So, put 5 ounces of sugar in a pint glass, add a squeeze of orange or lemon juice, top up with water, give it all a stir to dissolve the sugar, and then taste it. That'll give you a standard against which to assess the grape juice. Add sugar to the grape juice until it tastes about as sweet as the water. But don't add anything else to the grape juice apart from yeast.
There's certainly nothing wrong with pasteurising the grape juice to prevent that mould infection, although getting the yeast in there as quickly as possible would normally swamp any other beasties around. But if you DO pasteurise (which you did), you've whipped out all of the free oxygen which the yeast needs to start reproducing and build up a colony. Simple answer - put it back in. Give the juice a good shake or a vigorous stir.
Even without the sugar additions, there's no reason at all why your grape juice should not ferment perfectly healthily (as long as the added yeast is healthy).
Mike
PS Adding alcohol to grape juice will give you an alcoholic drink - but it won't be wine. The chemistry involved in yeast fermentation is massively more complex than simply making alcohol - there are all manner of reactions going on in there.
The secret of life is to aim below the head (With thanks to MMM)
Re: Grape juice
I agree with dave. In the right concentration,sugar may be a preservative. As we all know sugar is a natural preservative. A right amount of sugar can be mixed to a certain amount of grape concentrate.dave45 wrote:I don't think I agree with your opinion here ! Sugar is a preservative in the right concentration so may be enough for grape concentrate without pasteurisation. As I have found, straight grape juice aint enough concentration
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Re: Grape juice
My recipe for white wine
To make a gallon of wine you will need to pick 5-6Kg of white grapes. After picking wash the grapes to remove any insects or soil. Remove the grapes from the stalks and place in a food grade plastic bucket. Crush the grapes, if ripe, they will crush easily. Add one crushed campden tablet and add a weight, such as a large plate, to keep the crushed grapes submerged. Place a cover over the crushed grapes and leave for 24 hours which will allow the natural enzymes to break down the pulp and allow the maximum possible amount of juice to be extracted.
The next day and to remove as much juice as possible use a nylon straining bag to squeeze out the juice. The remaining pips and skins can be returned to your compost area.
Pour the extracted juice into a pre-sterilised fermentation bottle, add pre-activated wine yeast and fit an airlock.
Leave in a warm place but dark place until fermentation is complete which will usually be between 2-3 weeks.
Siphon the wine into a pre-sterilised fermentation jar ensuring the sediment stays behind. and top up with a similar wine or cooled boiled water and add a crushed campden tablet. Fit an airlock and move to a cool and dark place to allow the wine to clear. Every 3 months repeat the process and add a crushed campden tablet and leave to clear.
Your white wine should be mature enough to bottle after 12 months. Siphon into pre-sterilised bottles and label and cork immediately. If you can, leave for a further 3 months before enjoying a glass or two.
To make a gallon of wine you will need to pick 5-6Kg of white grapes. After picking wash the grapes to remove any insects or soil. Remove the grapes from the stalks and place in a food grade plastic bucket. Crush the grapes, if ripe, they will crush easily. Add one crushed campden tablet and add a weight, such as a large plate, to keep the crushed grapes submerged. Place a cover over the crushed grapes and leave for 24 hours which will allow the natural enzymes to break down the pulp and allow the maximum possible amount of juice to be extracted.
The next day and to remove as much juice as possible use a nylon straining bag to squeeze out the juice. The remaining pips and skins can be returned to your compost area.
Pour the extracted juice into a pre-sterilised fermentation bottle, add pre-activated wine yeast and fit an airlock.
Leave in a warm place but dark place until fermentation is complete which will usually be between 2-3 weeks.
Siphon the wine into a pre-sterilised fermentation jar ensuring the sediment stays behind. and top up with a similar wine or cooled boiled water and add a crushed campden tablet. Fit an airlock and move to a cool and dark place to allow the wine to clear. Every 3 months repeat the process and add a crushed campden tablet and leave to clear.
Your white wine should be mature enough to bottle after 12 months. Siphon into pre-sterilised bottles and label and cork immediately. If you can, leave for a further 3 months before enjoying a glass or two.
Grow your own it's much safer - http://www.cyprusgardener.co.uk and http://cyprusgardener.blogspot.com