Selfsufficientish.com

Have you ever watched this program? And if so, what do you think about it? (it is on wed. evenings at 8 pm)

I have tried to watch it pretty much each time and there is always something that really gets my blood boiling... It feels like this is another program that looks like they are informing the masses, but the info is not quite right and even some time lots of bits are missing so people are actually badly informed or even more misinformed.

Tonight, one of the horror ideas I am following was being discussed: That 8000 cows "farm" they are trying to build in Lincolnshire. Well I found one big lie/discrepancy from an agricultural marketer who said against people saying that cows should not be living inside a shed all the time that cows already spend 6 month of the year inside as the weather is so bad... Well the weather may be a bit wet (okay a lot wet in some parts) but it is never that cold and even last winter certainly did not get to temperatures I have seen back in my part of France in winter (except in the mountains of Scotland probably). Minus 20 degrees C. for a month is not something unusual back home. And for my parents who had what we call a small farm there, maybe a large holding here, cows (Holstein milking cows) were always out except if there was too much snow to cover the ground. And they were healthy cows! So that is already one big lie if people think that cows do spend 6 months of the year locked in. Then the presenter looked at the problems and the advantages to finally say that this is probably the only way to go to keep on getting cheap milk. At no point the food that would have to be fed to the cows was discussed. What will be the cost of that and how much will be needed? What will they eat? Wheat, corn? Do we actually need to feed more of it to cows, while we are already talking of not having enough for humans? We cannot really eat plain grass but cows can! Anyway that is one of the points that was never mentioned among others. And never did he mention that to produce that cheap milk, the farm has already put a request forward to the government for some grants…. So if you pay it cheap in the shops it will be because your taxes are paying the extras!
Anyway, this is my ranting about this program (and the horror farm). It has a couple of good bits too, but they are diluted in too many missed points.
Am I too harsh?

I haven't seen the programme...because Mr Muddy said I'd break the telly! Think that sums it up!

MW

No, you're not being too harsh. But TV proggies these days are much more aligned to entertainment value than the truth - and interested parties come in for a lot of slagging off by vested interests because it makes good viewing (say the producers of such programmes). Where I live, the cows are NEVER taken in, unless being herded under a high-roofed, open-sided shelter counts as being inside - and even then, that happens only in the severest weather (which, OK, never gets TOO severe here, but then I'm only a stone's throw from Lincolnshire).

It's merely another defence of intensive farming methods because that increases profits. I certainly cannot believe in the good fairies doing it all for the benefit of the human race.

And, as usual, we'll be ignored and the cattle factory will go ahead.

Mike

Well Mike; I am pleased to see, that there are still some farmers with some sense here. That program really got even me wondering if all British farmers had lost the plot with their cows...
I suppose you are quite right about the TV programmer not being interested in the truth, just how many they can get to watch the program...
Mrs Muddy, I think I should probably stop watching this program, otherwise I may have to hunt for a new TV in Freegle!!!

I think it is more normal for cows to live out in France all year round, particularly beef cattle, whereas they do live in big barns in the winter in the UK, why I do not know - I assume it's because of the mud and churning up the grazing but it could be any number of reasons. So I didn't think anything wrong with that report.

I enjoy this programme except for their idea of a cheap meal - only £2.40 ish a serving is cheap (cheap beef cuts)? That's about what, €6 for two - you must be joking if you think that is a cheap meal! We'd be eating bass or dorade if our budget was that high per meal.

Hi Milly,
You picked up on another point here: the price of that "cheap" meal at £2.40 per head... Both Hubby and I said: WHAT?! £2.40 PER HEAD!!?? NO WAY!! Just to prove that guy hasn't got a clue what a cheap meal is...

Exactly - the size of the serving if each person had a whole piece of shin was rather large I thought - what's wrong with eating half that much meat and filling up on mashed potato!! We do!

But it did get me thinking if some of that plain yoghurt contains sugar.... I buy what I think is unsweetened natural yoghurt so need to check the packaging! Well there's good and bad with every TV programme but if it gets some parents thinking twice about what they put in their kids lunchboxes that must be a good thing.

I also wish I had a knife in this house as sharp as that butcher's knife.

Can't say this programme does much for me and I didn't watch last nights prog (but have watched previous ones). The 8000 cow shed farm sounds terrible - just not right surely. Jay Raynor gets me mad, especially as a food critic on progs like Masterchef, I'd like to see him cook goumet meals!
The prog just doesn't give all sides to a subject and skips over or omits serious points and (as said) they don't seem to understand that a meal costing £2-odd just isn't cheap to most low-income families. Sometimes has a rather patronising air about it. Not one I'll bother with again.

I hate this programme. I hate that it uses journalistic style reporting to try and look impartial, when it quite clearly isn't if you give it just a moments thought. I find the hypocrisy of someone like Jay Rayner, who espouse factory farming (he's done this elsewhere too) when you know he never eats anything produced in this manner.

That leg of beef that was butchered last night had been hung for 28 days and I'm betting didn't come from any intensive-rearing source. No wonder his stew tasted so wonderful.

But when the taste testers go back to their supermarkets
1) I've never seen shin beef in a supermarket - they just don't seem to sell that cut for some reason, so they'll end up buying whatever they can and
2) It will come from an intensive-reared source, slaughtered and straight to supermarket source, will be bright red and never produce a stew tasting like his in a million years.

In addition, this so-called "cheap" cut will rocket in price, like belly pork did after some celebrity chef told us all how good it is.

Rant over - temporarily.

I 've never seen this programme nor shall I.For what it's worth here's a couple of points about UK dairying and beef(I know nothing of what happens in the rest of Europe).Some beef animals are kept inside usually with outside yards,(round here it's known as barley beef)they're fed on cereals and hay,you wont see them cos they're inside.The best beef is reared outside more extensively in fields and all but the hardiest varieties will have a field shelter.
Most dairy animals will spend some time inside over winter,to avoid poaching over winter,they stay in large sheds have their own cubicles,stay in their herds have access to an open yard and have the same trip to the milking parlour at the same time.How long they over winter depends upon the weather,how well the land drains,and your stocking ratio.It's drivel to suggest thay 6 months is the norm.
There,s no doubt the cows appreciate being turned out again,and it's easy to say well don't keep animals on unsuitable land,but bear in mind these dairymen are not 'agri-businessmen' herd sizes are more like a couple of hundred than thousands,so in ecological and animal welfare terms things could be a good deal worse.Large areas of the UK ,especially the SW would go the 'Milk factory' route if these farmers gave up.Many of them find this prospect just as unacceptable as the contributers to this forum.

I do watch it and yes, there is some real idiocy presented as fact!
They seemed to miss the whole point that the milk should not be so cheap and maybe we should cut down on our usage. The supermarkets control the price and if this was addressed maybe there would no longer be a perceived need for this type of intensive farming! When one thinks of the reason for the amount of milk we use in Uk anyway, it mainly seems to come from the postwar era (or have I got that wrong??) when it was promoted heavily.
I liked the lunchbox review but actually am unsure whether the message will reach those filling the boxes...maybe?? And the yoghurts was fairly thought provoking and less biased, I felt! I check them automatically (diabetic mum!!) but if it raised awareness it has use!
The test of organic eggs V free range was a bit subjective and It seemed that even those there were not going to change their habits due to the cost (the rather pompous remark that people prefer to save pennies rather than have taste made me VERY cross! not everyone has the choice!!)
And as for the £2.40 a head for a meal....I shouted at the TV and woke my poor OH who was peacefully dozing!!

If people knew the truth about their food and where it comes from there would be anarchy but many are just not interested so long as they can gorge themselves stupid.

Millymollymandy wrote:I think it is more normal for cows to live out in France all year round, particularly beef cattle, whereas they do live in big barns in the winter in the UK, why I do not know - I assume it's because of the mud and churning up the grazing but it could be any number of reasons. So I didn't think anything wrong with that report.

AFAIK, It's typical for dairy farms to bring their herds in during the winter because the pasture can't stand the trampling (at typical stocking rates) during wet weather (and the thing with British winters is that they do tend to be very wet, compared to the continent), especially when the grass isn't growing. It's a particular problem because most "improved" pasture comprises only one or two species of grass, which lack the physical resilience needed to withstand over-wintering cattle outside. There are some farms in the UK which manage to keep their herds outdoors all winter by having more diverse grasses in their pasture and using lower stocking rates.

Thanks Gregorach, I could only assume this was the reason as it's certainly not because it is too cold for them.

gregorach wrote:
AFAIK, It's typical for dairy farms to bring their herds in during the winter because the pasture can't stand the trampling (at typical stocking rates) during wet weather (and the thing with British winters is that they do tend to be very wet, compared to the continent), especially when the grass isn't growing. It's a particular problem because most "improved" pasture comprises only one or two species of grass, which lack the physical resilience needed to withstand over-wintering cattle outside. There are some farms in the UK which manage to keep their herds outdoors all winter by having more diverse grasses in their pasture and using lower stocking rates.

Now that makes sense and the fact is, my parents never improved the grass land so it was full of much stronger grass that does not get easily trampled and anyway there were only 15 odd cows, so not a big herd...
Milly, I would also love to have that butcher's knife, actually, that butcher certainly knew what to do with it too! He made it look so easy!