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Ok, here we go with my current quandary!

There's no veg plot at the straw bale hoose, but there's a reasonably flat, elevated area which has long been earmarked by me as the spot for veggies. It's exposed to the sun and a short distance from my back door. It was heavily overgrown but in a wee 'labour for your Sthil strimmer' swap, a pal has now cleared it. I have not paced it out but would guess it's 20m by 20m.

It is quite heavily water logged though. It suffers from water running off hills on the other side of the road. Now most of this runs down the road verge, but inevitably some seeps through and lies on the land.

I was quite tempted by creating a mandala garden, but then got way-layed after picking up a copy of Charles Dowding's No Dig Gardening. Now there's similarities in both but one is laid out in key hole beds/blobs and the other is nice regular straight rows. I like straight rows and now cannot decide which route to go down!

Either method would suit the waterlogged site because they both involve raising up the growing area. But which one to go for???

Fancy bed layouts are all very well until you try hoeing around them... Then you suddenly realise why straight lines and even spacing are such a good idea. You've got to remember that a lot of these permaculture ideas are oriented towards high-density permanent plantings, not "conventional" vegetable growing.

Dowding's no dig method has minimal hoeing too. I just cant get my head around veggies that are not in nice regimented rows!

If you like straight lines, go with straight lines!

OK, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but the only argument I can see for the mandala is: "non-linear gardens have greater productivity due to the fact that there is simply more gardening space when using non-linear geometry" and I'd like to see that demonstrated before I'm willing to believe it.

Well, I'm not intrinsically bothered about rows myself, but I am a big fan of hoeing, so I make the effort... And I do seem to recall that Mr Dowding recommends more-or-less constant light weeding, although he's not specific about the method. He's certainly the principle inspiration behind my own methods. (I haven't read the most recent edition though.)

I'd certainly go with Mr Dowding's recommendations for anything resembling "conventional" vegetable growing.

Zech wrote:OK, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but the only argument I can see for the mandala is: "non-linear gardens have greater productivity due to the fact that there is simply more gardening space when using non-linear geometry" and I'd like to see that demonstrated before I'm willing to believe it.

What you really want is non-Euclidean geometry, but then you have problems with Elder Gods... Believe me, an infestation of shoggoths makes the slug problem look like a picnic.

gregorach wrote:

Zech wrote:OK, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but the only argument I can see for the mandala is: "non-linear gardens have greater productivity due to the fact that there is simply more gardening space when using non-linear geometry" and I'd like to see that demonstrated before I'm willing to believe it.

What you really want is non-Euclidean geometry, but then you have problems with Elder Gods... Believe me, an infestation of shoggoths makes the slug problem look like a picnic.

I certainly want to keep the Elder Gods on side - I'm very partial to the delicious flowers and berries they provide. Oh hang on, not those Elder Gods...?

Getting our feet firmly back in touch with the ground, straight rows are not just for hoeing. I'm into no dig and mulch, so I don't have that many weeds and don't like to hoe (disturbs the mulch and it is easy to just pull them out when small) but a big advantage of straight rows for me are that they make it easy to spot anything amiss - a weed or damaged plant, it stands out.

Straight rows, which don't have to have big gaps between them to walk down as in conventional veg growing, can be laid out in square or diagonal grids for maximum yields are also easier to arrange netting and other protection.

The big problem to decide upon with no-dig beds are the paths and the edge between the path and the beds. Straight paths in between the beds are the most efficient and take up the least space. If laid to grass also the easiest to mow. If you have raised beds then straight timber is probably the most obvious choice as an edging material. If you go for mulching paths and beds in compost as Charles Dowding then this is less of an issue but straight paths still take up the least space.

I'm sure there are those that say that this is all too masculine and that the mandala gardens are softer and prettier, personally I think that it is not the shape of the beds but what you grow in them - I like straight rows for the reasons stated above but then I also like flowers mingled in including self-seeded ones popping up where they want.

Why not try both? From a quick scan the Mandala approach is about location, Sun, slopes etc, why not do this in the middle and straight around the edges, see where things grow best, then that will inform you how to develop things?

My mind is all about straight weed free lines, but gardening is prettier and more fun and less guilt ridden for me, when you accept weeds and wobbles into your heart!

What ever approach you take it won't be perfect, and what works one year may not the next, Isn't it more about having more wins that losses though?

gregorach wrote:What you really want is non-Euclidean geometry, but then you have problems with Elder Gods... Believe me, an infestation of shoggoths makes the slug problem look like a picnic.

As Bob Howard would say, "I was much happier when I was an atheist"..