Wee wee on the compost heap

[stevetc]

We have a compost toilet and it's wonderful . . . Not at all smelly and produces amazing compost (Although it does seem to sprout uninvited tomato plants!) . . . I know this is not the same as a compost heap, but we try not to pee in it . . . Cos wee seems to make it smelly and slower to break down.
Does anyone know - is it okay to put kitchen compost into the compost toilet?

[greenorelse]

We have a compost toilet and it's wonderful . . . Not at all smelly and produces amazing compost (Although it does seem to sprout uninvited tomato plants!) . . . I know this is not the same as a compost heap, but we try not to pee in it . . . Cos wee seems to make it smelly and slower to break down.
Does anyone know - is it okay to put kitchen compost into the compost toilet?

I would say yes, though ours is segregated at the moment till I build a totally rat-proof heap, sometime in March.

Again, the amount of sawdust we use seems to make a difference. We use loads and don't take any chance with smells.

What type of CT do you have, stevetc? How long have you been at it?

[stevetc]

We've had it for about 4years now . . . I'd never had one before (or been into gardening before) so it's a learning experience . . . It's a twin-chamber, one chamber in use at a time, with about a year cycling between chambers. Each chamber is probably 5 or 600 litres. When one chamber becomes full, we dig out the other and put the spoil into a compost bin (or whatever's handy!) where it has at least another year compostin. The full one gets closed up and the cycle continues. I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it, the method's evolved from the input of people who've used them before. I was surprised at how non-minging it is to dig out after only a year, and it's gone straight onto the garden after 2 and a half (only for flowers tho, am told it's still too strong for veg?). I don't know if this is too short a composting time? Seems to be fine tho. The rapid cycle is driven partly by the amount of use it gets - maybe 10 ppl a day, more in summer - and the number of gardeners amongst us. All works fine as long as we don't wee in it - that seems to slow the whole process down and make it smelly. We have had a rat in there for a bit but i think it got too much for him, haven't seen him around for a while . . .

Edit cos i forgot to say - we flush with a handful of sawdust or wood ash . . . Tho for the 1st year we were using coarse sawdust, didn't work too well.

[battybird]

We have just bought a urine seperator loo seat for our "upgraded" compost loo. We are diverting the urine via the tube onto a straw bale which is at the edge of the compost heap. (The straw bale was suggested by this site some time ago, stops smells). We had found that emptying the loo was heavier and it was a bit smellier when urine was in the mix: we have a bucket and chuckit system. The idea is that the straw bale will break down and become part of the compost heap anyway. We have been composting for three years now (not full time) and the heaps have broken down really well, and the first heap now has a tangerine tree growing on the edge of it. During the day my OH does pee on the heap but I can now use the loo and make my contribution more discreetly! Nearly caught by the neighbours balancing over the compost heap one day prior to the new loo I will post pictures of our "posh" loo soon...I am very proud of it! oh and we use a scoopful of sawdust from untreated wood to "flush" and have found we need less when there is no urine.

[Thurston Garden]

Steve that's interesting to read. Is your twin chamber on an allotment or community garden? Mine will be in my new straw bale house so I have little option but to please building control. Mine will also be twin chamber - about the same size as yours I think. Mine wont get near as much use as yours though.

I have been getting quite a bit of help from Andy at Natsol. Very nice chap (batty is that where you bought your usine separator?). I think the only downside of what Andy is proposing (to keep bc control happy) is that the chambers will be mechanically vented. As the air is pulled up a flue to the outside, air must enter the chamber to replace it. Andy is recommending this comes from within the house, as the chambers should be air tight - i.e. bug/fly tight. The replacement air will be drawn from under the loo seat into the chamber and then out up the vent pipe. The other method is to have a waterless urinal and the air drawn down through the drain into the chamber. Either way, the air is not likely to seep into the house, but the downside is be drawing air out of the house, cold air has to enter in somewhere to replace it.

Batty - I like the idea of a bale by the compost heap. I think this is where 99% of my pee will go. Maybe not during the night though! I will be living on site in a static caravan during the build so will be experimenting with the bucket and chucket system for about a year. I might chuck it into the chambers of the CT for the new house - apparently the most common problem with new twin chambers is getting the good bugs in there in the first place to deal with the bad bug (sh1t fly) eggs.

[stevetc]

Have to say, i am very pleased to have found a site where people are into composting! We have a little community of people living in trucks and caravans, mainly, a few gardens (mostly tyres and containers and a bit of lawn), and the toilet tucked away at the far end. The amount of use it gets is seasonal - there're more people around in the summer. We don't do anything with wee, though you're making me wonder if we could be making use of it. Might be too much volume to be practical though, but i'll have a think . . . Hmmm.

I had wondered - someone told me that in the good ole days - in places where the population was close to the land's sustainable capacity, raw human poo went straight onto the fields . . . Am curious if this is true . . . ? Not planning on trying it -aromatic and tasty - just curious if we compost the stuff for the good of the land, for our health, or for our noses? Is it better for growing, the longer we leave it?

[greenorelse]

I will post pictures of our "posh" loo soon...I am very proud of it!

Please do, bb!

oh and we use a scoopful of sawdust from untreated wood to "flush" and have found we need less when there is no urine.

Fair enough; thanks for the info. We have shedloads of sawdust so it's not a great issue for us.

apparently the most common problem with new twin chambers is getting the good bugs in there in the first place to deal with the bad bug (sh1t fly) eggs.

That's one of the reasons I like the simple compost heap system - the creatures find their way in, you don't have to think about it much. The temperature gets up quite high, high enough to 'sterilise' it. Even during the -10ºC ish period, the the heap was around 38º.

Have to say, i am very pleased to have found a site where people are into composting!

Snap.

I had wondered - someone told me that in the good ole days - in places where the population was close to the land's sustainable capacity, raw human poo went straight onto the fields . . . Am curious if this is true . . . ? Not planning on trying it -aromatic and tasty - just curious if we compost the stuff for the good of the land, for our health, or for our noses? Is it better for growing, the longer we leave it?

When we first moved here, there was no loo of any sort (in fact the plumbing consisted of 1 cold feed from the deep well leading to a tap hanging over a tank bolted onto the side of an ancient Stanley range...)

It always has me wondering what the generations who lived here did with their poo. This being an old Irish cottage, I've no doubt hundreds were raised here. Their poo must be somewhere out there!

[stevetc]

Wow . . . That 38 degrees was your compost-heap internal temperature? (soz, i don't know how to quote yet!). Sounds as though you measured it? That's just the sorta thing i'd do!
I guess but that heat is coming from - what? Lots of really frisky bacteriological activity? Is it producing methane? Is it a fire-hazard? When we had snow, it melted from around our compost-toilet, so it was obviously warm in there - which is why the poo-rat (Hemmingway) lived there, i suppose. I'd wonder about what became of all the historical rural poo, too. . . Are compost-toilets traditional?

[greenorelse]

Wow . . . That 38 degrees was your compost-heap internal temperature? (soz, i don't know how to quote yet!). Sounds as though you measured it? That's just the sorta thing i'd do!

It was the temperature about 12 inches into the centre of the heap, yes.

I guess but that heat is coming from - what? Lots of really frisky bacteriological activity?

Yes - thermophilic bacteria. There are different stages in the life of a compost loo heap and they tend to keep the heap warm to a greater or lesser degree. I'd say you need a phase of high heat to blast the nasties...

Is it producing methane?

I would guess not at methane is more associated with landfills, where stuff is going on anaerobically.

Is it a fire-hazard?

No, the heap is too damp. The highest temperature I've seen in the heap is 64C.

I'd wonder about what became of all the historical rural poo, too. . . Are compost-toilets traditional?

[battybird]

I try not to think too much about where the human poo went in the barn...the adega used to house the animals and I guess their poo has composted down and is now under the floor in the kitchen ...we concreted it! but there was no loo and no water supply so bucket and chuckit was probably the norm...the humanure book has a really good section on the history of night waste (did they ever go in the daytime?? )
Looked for photos of the new loo but will have to take some next time we are out there...can get quite boring on the subject...good to find other ishers are interested!

[skiesabove]

I wonder... How do you guys solve the peeing for those eating hormones or antibiotics or other medicines?

I wouldn't want to feed my plants that =(...

[stevetc]

I have wondered about this. We try to keep wee out of our compost toilet. . . but I'm sure that poo contains just as many trace-chemicals from what people consume . . . and our compost toilet is free for anyone who visits to use. I'm sure that some of them take drugs / are on the pill / taking antibiotics / drinking strong white cider.

I just tend to not think about it 'cos you do what you can, and it can't be any worse than the veg in the supermarket . . .

[greenorelse]

skiesabove and stevetc

I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, some chemicals will linger but, in the main, most are broken down. Some will leach into the soil below the heap.

I would recommend a thorough reading of The Humanure Handbook to put your mind at rest. Ahem:

Pharmaceutical drugs such as chemotherapy drugs, antibiotics, antiseptics, beta-blocker heart drugs, hormones, analgesics, cholesterol-lowering drugs and drugs for regulating blood lipids have turned up in such places as tap water, groundwater beneath sewage treatment plants, lake water, rivers and in drinking water aquifers. Think about that the next time you fill your glass with water.

Compost is also able to decontaminate soil polluted with TNT from munitions plants (...) some success has been shown in the bioremediation of PCBs (...) Despite the chlorinated nature of the PCBs, researchers still managed to get quite a few microorganisms to choke the stuff down.

There is also some evidence to suggest composting will remediate radioactive soil...

[sleepyowl]

for the females who want to pee on their compost heap you can get a shewee but they are made of plastic though

[solarwind]

I'm currently in the process of constructing a composting toilet, but her indoors reckons I'm just going through the motions!