If you know of a way to help save our planet, even just a small part of it put it here. Also if you want to ask how to help, or even if you want to promote your environmental organisation. All goes here.
farmerdrea wrote:
Thing is... does the human population actually require much more beyond food, clothing and housing? Do we really NEED exotic holidays, cars or even hobbies? This sense of entitlement - where did it come from (generally speaking, not aimed at you, MINESAPINT).
Andrea
NZ
Exactly what would I be doing as a retired person without hobbies as the grandchildren are too old to need granny for babysitting, etc? Once the house is clean, the food cooked and the clothes washed, ironed and stored.
If I had no hobbies I would be sitting in a chair staring at the wall.
OK so my hobbies include running an allotment and working with the Town Ground Force (think litter picking for instance). No telly, no holidays, no car.
MINESAPINT wrote: I spend most of my time thinking about what a state the environment is actually in! Much of the waste dumped on the environment now does not decompose for thousands of years and all the time we are dumping more. Cleaning up this waste has just about fallen off the agenda with much of the country (UK) becoming a huge rubbish dump.
Industrial Society has been spreading blatant lies over the years.
These are contradictory terms - these are oxymorons. Industrialization can never be green - it is impossible.
You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.
When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.
It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.
Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.
We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.
If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter] the ecosystems will last longer.
If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.
The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.
This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.
We are alive because of ecosystems - we owe our very existence to ecosystems.
Industrial Society has destroyed most ecosystems within a span of 250 years after Industrial Revolution.
Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].
Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured, repaired or restored by MultiNational Companies in industries and factories.
The collapse has already happened for millions of other species. Most of them have been decimated.
Very soon it will be the turn of man to go.
sushil_yadav PowerSwitch EnviroLink Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
These are contradictory terms - these are oxymorons. Industrialization can never be green - it is impossible.
Sushil,
Although I agree that lies have been spread, I'm not convinced that this was due to "Industrialisation". I think it's more due to the greed of man, and it is society's fault for allowing this to happen.
"Industry" is good. At its very basic it's the effort we put in to making our life on earth fulfilling and meaningful. "Green industry" merely suggest a better way than destroying the planet in the process.
For early man technology was the flint, the corn stone, the understanding of how to grow food. Only recently has "technology" been used to imply something more unnatural and evil. It's man that has allowed technology to be without due concern for the environment.
Consumerism is about promoting the interests of the consumer. That's us. Again, this can be abused, but it's fundamental to our very nature. Take away that and you take away our hopes, our desires and condemn us purgatory.
Industry, technology, consumerism, development. Nothing wrong with any of them. It how we use them that's important. It is clearly possible to have "Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism" and "Sustainable Development". Indeed it is important that we do.
These are contradictory terms - these are oxymorons. Industrialization can never be green - it is impossible.
"Industry" is good. "Green industry" merely suggest a better way than destroying the planet in the process.
Consumerism is about promoting the interests of the consumer. That's us. Again, this can be abused, but it's fundamental to our very nature. Take away that and you take away our hopes, our desires and condemn us purgatory.
Industry, technology, consumerism, development. Nothing wrong with any of them. It how we use them that's important. It is clearly possible to have "Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism" and "Sustainable Development". Indeed it is important that we do.
This crazy society did not anticipate "Financial Collapse" until it actually happened.
This crazy society is not going to anticipate "Ecosystem Collapse" until it actually happens.
The way this insane, abnormal and criminal society is running is like :
A car running in a closed garage.
Adding extra floors to a building by removing bricks from the lower floors.
The crash - the collapse - the end is coming.
It is a matter of one or two decades at the most.
sushil_yadav PowerSwitch EnviroLink Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we compare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.
Economy is a non-issue. Environment is important. Economy will not even exist without environment. Humans will not even exist without environment.
Modern society has plunged to extreme depths of insanity.
Modern society thinks it can be sustainable while it continues producing thousands of consumer goods.
Modern society thinks a peaceul world is possible while it continues to sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.
Modern society thinks cancer can be cured while it continues flooding the ecosystems with thousands of carcinogens.
On a small planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference the first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.
We destroy ecosystems for food - for clothing - for shelter - and for thousands of consumer goods.
The less we destroy - the more sustainable we are.
The fewer things we make - the more sustainable we are.
On a small planet like earth only a non-consumerist society can be sustainable - only a society that destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter[and health care] can be sustainable.
When something goes wrong with our cars, computers and aeroplanes, we contact the manufacturer to know how they could be repaired - where they could be repaired.
All ecosystems on earth are getting destroyed moment by moment. To repair, restore and regenerate them we need to contact the manufacturer. But where is the manufacturer of ecosystems? There is no human manufacturer - There are no multiNational Companies that manufactured rivers and oceans, fertile soil, forests, millions of species, millions of members in millions of species, arctic ice and other glaciers.
About 30 years ago most people refused to believe that arctic ice was melting or could melt in future.
Then satellite pictures started appearing and provided proof with "before and after" pictures. People reluctantly accepted that ice was melting - but were still not alarmed. They said it would take hundreds of years - thousands of years for ice to melt to a dangerous level.
If we compare satellite pictures of arctic ice of this year with those taken 30 years ago we would know how alarming the situation is.
Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. The summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.
In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.
Every ecosystem is in grave danger. The doomsday scenario is approaching hundreds of times faster than predicted earlier. The signs - the indicators are already there - the recent climate changes - the extreme weather conditions - droughts, floods, fires, hurricanes and typhoons. The collapse has already happened for millions of other species - they have been decimated. Human collapse is very near - just around the corner.
sushil_yadav Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
The basic problem is that most people do not understand what sustainability means. The problem is not helped by politicians who liberally sprinkle everything they do with "sustainability", by which they mean "Let's try to keep the damned environmentalists off our backs until after the next election," or by marketers who mean, "Let's keep on making more money."
Sustainability means if you use it, you have to put it back.
If you use a gallon of clean water, you have to put back a gallon of clean water. If you create a pound of CO2, you have to remove a pound of CO2. If you cut an acre of mature forest, you have to replace it with a new acre of mature forest. Sustainability is hard!
KeithBC wrote:The basic problem is that most people do not understand what sustainability means. The problem is not helped by politicians who liberally sprinkle everything they do with "sustainability", by which they mean "Let's try to keep the damned environmentalists off our backs until after the next election," or by marketers who mean, "Let's keep on making more money."
KeithBC,
Thanks for expressing your views on sustainability and environmental crisis.
Very soon science is going to announce the gene for environmental destruction.
Humans are not responsible for environmental destruction - it is the gene.
Humans are not responsible for anything - the genes are responsible for everything.
It is the gene which is responsible for obesity.
It is the gene which is responsible for cancer.
It is the gene which is responsible for violence/ aggression.
It is the gene which is responsible for mental suffering.
When it comes to Olympic medal they will give it to a person - not to the gene.
When it comes to Nobel Prize they will give it to a person - not to the gene.
When it comes to rewarding work they will pay million dollar salary to the CEO - not to the gene.
When it comes to "Theory of Relativity" they will give credit to Einstein - not to the gene.
On earth we have got oceans and oceans of water - which have been polluted/ poisoned by man - but this is hardly news for humans.
Recently Man bombarded the moon with a rocket to discover traces of water - and it became the newspaper headline across the world.
They call it progress, growth, development.
Height of insanity - Height of abnormality.
Don't search for a few molecules of water in outer space.
Take care of the water that is available on earth.
sushil_yadav Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
sushil_yadav wrote:I was being sarcastic towards the scientific community that tends to blame the genes [ not humans ] for all problems.
No you're wrong with this I feel. I don't believe it's the scientific community that's 'blaming' the genes. It more likely the media that are allow the facts to be twisted (for the sake of a catchy headline or a one liner).
I think you are right if you're saying that some people find it convenient to absolve their responsibility by blaming it on the genes, but that's far from everyone. Those same people would probably blame anything convenient.
If we just say that genes may give us the predilection to do horrid things and be horrible people (destroying the planet along the way) do you have any suggestions how this can be avoided?
Dear friends, I have made some additions to my article and would like to request members of SelfSufficientish Forums to kindly read.......thank you.
............
Industrial Society is speeding up the demise of ecosystems by providing jobs to all - education to all.
After Industrial Revolution work turned into extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.
Most of the people living in cities are engaged in the destructive cycle of
production of consumer goods, selling of consumer goods, buying of
consumer goods.This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in
circumference. Today 50% of world population is living in cities - and
this percentage is increasing day by day.
Provide jobs to all?
Provide education to all? - oh yes, provide jobs/education to all and
very soon the human species will go out of existence.
The entire education system is promoting consumerism, extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.
People who are getting education in technology/ engineering.... are engaged in production of consumer goods.
People who are getting education in the fields of business, finance, MBA....are engaged in selling of consumer goods.
Most of the people getting education in Arts subjects are also engaged in
selling of consumer goods and services - sales and marketing jobs.
If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will last longer. If we destroy ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will finish much sooner.
Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water,land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].
By providing jobs to all - education to all, Industrial Society is destroying the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.
Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started doing work continuously - 24 X 7 - picking up things already lying in the house, breaking them up and making new things out of them without stopping?
A similar thing is happening to the planet - 6.8 billion people
continuously engaging in work - destroying the ecosystems moment by
moment.
Man started destroying "extra" after Industrial Revolution. This "extra"
destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.
Work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work. People who are working to provide food, clothing, shelter and healthcare are doing work - rest of the population is engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.
Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured / created by MultiNational Corporations. Who can undo the damage that has been done to ecosystems by billions of people over a period of 200 - 250 years?
Industrial Society has killed billions of acres of fertile soil by covering it with cement and concrete.This is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.We
have got a very small planet. On this small planet two-thirds of
surface area is water. Only one-third is land - and this includes vast
areas of land that are not fertile - deserts, rocky
mountains, ice/ glaciers. There is very little surface area on
earth which is fertile. It is this fertile soil that has produced food
for millions of species that have lived on land for millions of years. Killing billions of acres of fertile soil is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.The punishment is coming - very soon - punishment of the highest degree - punishment raised to the power of infinity.
These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
Industry produces three kinds of waste - solid, liquid and gaseous.
There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - air, water, land.
There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial waste can go.
Industrial Society has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, chemical waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste.........
This waste has killed, polluted and poisoned rivers, lakes, oceans, underground water, the soil/ land, the air/ sky.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.
We have created a society that rapes, plunders and exploits "Mother Earth" 365 days of the year - and then celebrates Earth Day.
When someone destroys the home of a human being it is considered a crime and the accused is sent to prison.
When the human species collectively destroys the homes [ecosystems] of millions of other species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.
The police, the law, the judiciary are trying to catch a few criminals - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.
Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.
What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we com...pare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.
The two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism.
Science, Technology and Industrialization are responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.
If "Industrial Revolution" had not happened what would be the scenario today?
The feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control.
Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.
Maybe I would'nt be existing today - and billions of others may not have existed - but millions/ billions of humans would exist [just like they existed before Industrialization]
Most ecosystems would be hundreds of times/ thousands of times in better shape than today.
Millions of other species that have been decimated by Industrial Society would be existing in very healthy numbers - their population levels thousands of times greater than what they are now.
Providing food, clothing, shelter and healthcare is good. But did "Industrial Society" stop at that?
Do we have an Industrial Society that only provides food, clothing, shelter and healthcare to people?
No - the jokers tried to sell hundreds of consumer goods to all citizens of Industrial Society. They tried to make all people consumerists.
Industrial Society started destroying ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to destroying them for food, clothing and shelter.
You cannot do this on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference. If you live this way you end up destroying all ecosystems - you end up decimating all other species - you end up destroying animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.
The earth is sick.
Ecosystems are dying.
Animals, trees, air, water and land are dying.
People say - why bother, it was meant to happen this way, nature will take care of itself.
When people fall sick - they rush to the doctor to save themselves.
When people fall sick - they rush to the hospital to save themselves.
Insane, abnormal, selfish, criminal human species.
Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.
How can this ever be true?
A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.
It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.
The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.
And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.
And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.
Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.
But this is not the case.
We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.
If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.
Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.
Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.
First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.
So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.
So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?
How can green cover ever increase?
Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.
The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.
One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests - before and after. One can compare the pictures taken 30 years ago with those taken this year.
Why did God create the insane human species that is ready to do
everything for the wrong cause and nothing for the right cause – a
species which is willing to do everything to destroy the ecosystems and
nothing to save the ecosystems.
Man is ready to kill and get killed for religion, for country, for honour, for power, for money and fame - But not for environment.
Millions have been killed over trivial issues and causes.
Millions have died for trivial issues and causes.
How many people have died for environment? How many people have died for
the most important / precious things on earth – animals, trees, air,
water and land – the very things that created and sustained all life on
earth.
Most of the ecosystems are already gone. The
little that remains is dying moment by moment. The situation is
extremely critical but the human response is limited to the same old
insanity – bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.
Environmentalism has failed.
Environmentalism never existed.
It was Pseudo-Environmentalism all the way.
When 3000 people died in World Trade Center collapse the west was outraged - Killers, Murderers, Terrorists - they cried out. America vowed to smoke out the culprits - attacked Afghanistan, flattened the country and killed hundreds of thousands of people [directly or indirectly].
When American company "Union Carbide"... killed 20,000 people in Bhopal, India the same desire for justice was not shown by the west.
Why? - Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
There are hundreds of insecticides/ pesticides that are banned in western countries but the west is selling millions of tonnes of these chemicals in asia - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].
Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
The west is shipping millions of tonnes of toxic , hazardous waste to asian countries for recycling - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].
Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?
The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in wars. No terrorist organization has killed that many people.
Industry kills - Industry kills humans, Industry kills animals, Industry kills trees, Industry kills air, Industry kills water, Industry kills land.
Industry is the killer - Industry is the murderer - Industry is the
terrorist.
Destruction of ecosystems will soon lead to collapse of Industrial Society.
Humans have decimated millions of other species - very soon it will be the turn of Humans to get decimated.
But even decimation of humans will not save ecosystems - only a total wipe-out of humans will save ecosystems.
If a few million humans survive they will again try to build another Industrial Society because they have seen such a society.
Only human extinction will work.
When the human species appears again there must be no memory of Industrialization and consumerism left in the human brain.
It would be best if the human species never ever appears on the planet again.
This planet can only sustain societies that produce their own food.
This planet cannot sustain societies that do not produce their own food.
Everyone in this world is eating food.
But everyone in this world is not producing food.
Today 50% of world population is living in cities. This population is not producing food. A society that does not produce its own food creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied. People would go crazy if this unnecessary work is not created. A city-based/ non-farming society is mostly engaged in production and selling of consumer goods and services. Work turns into over-work, extra work, destructive work.
When society produces its own food it destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter.
When society does not produce its own food it destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing, shelter.
Cities existed before Industrial Revolution but their destructive impact was very little because they were not producing consumer goods that are being made today.
We can never save environment if we are destroying extra - We can never save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
It is impossible to save environment as long as cities exist.
It is impossible to save environment if we have societies that do not produce their own food.
Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.
In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.
If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would
have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that
too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.
It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.
It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining
activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the
earth.
It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.
It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and
land - the entire planet.
It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
poisoned the entire planet.
The Machine has killed all ecosystems.
It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.
The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.
Machine is the killer.
Kill the machine.
The shameless, insane, abnormal and criminal human species
gets alarmed only when other species are about to go extinct – not before. And
even this late concern is fake - how could it ever be real.
The crime happens much before extinction of species. The tragedy happens much
before extinction of species.
This planet was made for millions of species - not for man alone.
The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier than extinction when man decimated all
other species.
The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier when the population of each species
dropped from millions to thousands and hundreds.
How would humans feel if the roles were reversed and the following happened.
All the animals of the world join hands to decimate the human species.
Humans are outraged , they cry out - killers, murderers, criminals, terrorists.
The animals say - "what are you complaining about?".
We are so compassionate - we did'nt kill all of you.
You should be grateful that we did'nt make you extinct.
There are 10 of you still alive on every continent.
Jobs or Environment?
Economy or Environment?
These are the questions that are being asked today.
This is insanity raised to the power of infinity.
Do we need to discuss, debate and argue for 100 years to know the answer?
Do we need to do research for 100 years to know the answer?
What would be the response of this genius society if professional killers said - you should not stop us from killing people - if you do that you are taking away our jobs.
Jobs are killing ecosystems, work is killing ecosystems, economy is killing ecosystems - work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, extra work, destructive work.
Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [animals, trees, air, water, land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].
Without environment humans will not even exist.
Without environment millions of other species will not exist.
We are alive because of nature - we owe our very existence to nature.
But this insane, abnormal and criminal "Industrial Society" continues to choose jobs instead of environment - economy instead of environment.
Insanity raised to the power of infinity.
Out of millions of species the human species is the only species which is insane enough to believe that food comes from money.
Millions of other species have lived on earth for millions of years. Their food did not come from money.
Food does not come from money - food comes from nature - food grows because of nature - food exists because of fertile soil, water, air, sunlight.......
Industrial Society has killed, polluted, poisoned the very things that produce food.
You can load trillions of dollars into a rocket and send it to the moon - you will not be able to buy a single grain of food over there.
Money is paper, money is plastic - money is not food.
Chief Seattle of the Indian Tribe had warned :
"only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"
When is this insane society going to understand that it is not just Industrial accidents that destroy ecosystems - all Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.
The Bhopal gas tragedy killed 20,000 people, crippled half a million people for life, killed thousands of animals and birds, killed/ polluted/ poisoned... the air, water and soil.
Union Carbide was making pesticides/ insecticides in its plant. These carcinogenic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of people all over the world every year - directly or indirectly. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning millions of acres of soil every year, These toxic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of animals and birds every year. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning the underground and above-ground water sources. These toxic insecticides and pesticides have poisoned the entire food chain leading to multiple organ failure, genetic defects, birth defects.
If the Bhopal Gas Tragedy had not happened the toxic insecticides and pesticides produced by Union Carbide would have still led to destruction of ecosystems, killing of humans, animals, birds, air, water and soil.
Recently there was an oil spill in the sea in US. The oil is killing marine life.
Oil kills ecosystems when it spills into the sea.
Oil kills ecosystems even when it does'nt spill into the sea.
If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to power ships that move around oceans - catching fish, killing marine life, torturing marine life moment by moment. At any given time there are 50,000 ships moving in the oceans.
If the oil had not spilled it would have been used to run millions of cars, other vehicles, aeroplanes - whose exhausts would release millions of tonnes of toxic gases into the atmosphere. That is not all - ecosystems are killed to manufacture millions of cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes that run on oil.
If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to run millions of industries and factories - all of which kill ecosystems - animals, trees, air, water, land.
When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.
It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.
Industries burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.
Industrial Society has generated billions of tonnes of hazardous solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic
waste, eWaste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.
When an Industrial accident happens the focus of entire world shifts to it.
All environmentalists are outraged.
As if the environment was in good shape before the accident and will be in good shape after the accident.
The problem is not Industrial accident -the problem is not any particular Industrial accident - the problem is Industry itself.
Industrial accidents will continue to happen as long as Industry exists.
They will only get bigger and bigger.
Bigger the Industry bigger the Industrial accident.
Industry kills ecosystems when there is an Industrial accident.
Industry kills ecosystems even when there is no Industrial accident.
All Industrial activity is an accident.
All Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.
All Industrial activity kills animals, trees, air, water, land.
All Industrial activity leads to environmental crisis, environmental disaster, environmental catastrophe.
It is impossible to save ecosystems as long as industry exists.
Technology has destroyed ecosystems.
But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.
Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.
Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean - they were not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial waste.
Which technology made the water clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago the oceans were full of fish and other marine species.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste did not exist on this planet.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste did not exist on this planet.
Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?
Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.
Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.
Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.
sushil_yadav
Delhi, India Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.
Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?
This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.
Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.
In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.
Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.
Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.
Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????
Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.
Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.
Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.
When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.
The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.
If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.
The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????
What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.
It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.
The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.
A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]
An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]
Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism
It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.
Height of Insanity!
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.
Dear Sushil,
I mainly agree with you although I haven't read it all as my time on the internet is limited because I don't have mains electricity.
I'm pretty much a 'peasant' and that's the way I prefer to be. I don't like towns or crowds of people. I believe that the world is far too over-populated and I also dislike industry as a principle. Admittedly I do use some of the products of industry, but if they weren't there I believe I could survive happily without them.
Unfortunately unless some major disaster strikes to drastically reduce the population, or some incredible alternative scenario occurs I'm afraid that things are not going to change for the better. We're stuck with human greed and stupidity driving us rapidly toward the abyss.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.
Well, I've kept my mouth shut for long enough. In my opinion, Sushil, this is a load of pseudo-scientific, pseudo-sociological and pseudo-environmental crap (and, in case you didn't notice, I told you so in another forum where you posted PRECISELY the same stuff - verbatim). You obviously have an agenda, but I respect your right to your own opinions. What I can't quite work out is what you're doing with them. You are obviously working up a manifesto, but to what end? So what if "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"? We're stuck with it, and have no simple alternative. If you're gunning for a militant survivalist strategy, then please say so rather than lambasting us with dogma containing rather violent overtones.
Please explain what your Doomsday philosophy has to do with growing carrots.
Mike
The secret of life is to aim below the head (With thanks to MMM)
