I think there can be too much of the absolutist "I am right and you are wrong" attitude on this forum and perhaps that is something that will alienate posters and make them timid about joining in the debate as it can get quite accusing!
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If it was just the oil, I might agree with you. It's the intersection of the oil and everything else (biodiversity loss, soil erosion, aquifer depletion, climate change, etc, etc, you know the list...) that worries me.MKG wrote:No, we're not completely f**ked by a disappearing oil supply. We're going to enter a difficult phase, certainly, but I truly believe we'll get past that. Watch out for the renaissance of nuclear power. We'll survive and we will, as a species, look back on the history of oil and chuckle away merrily.
Firstly, I'm not saying that your lifestyle is completely untenable, just private motor transport. (And I think it's quite telling that people conflate the two...) I'm saying you're going to have to make some changes. People live in rural settlements without private motor transport (with emphasis on the words private and motor) all over the world, and have done throughout history. It can be done, but you will have to make some adjustments.oldjerry wrote:What could be more condescending than suggesting to people who are struggling to make ends meet that their way of life is completely un tenable and so it's all in a good cause?
Germany did resort to this, yes. Didn't work out very well for them.... It's horrendously expensive, inefficient and polluting - the sort of thing only the truly desperate resort to. The EROEI is about 5:1 - better than corn ethanol, but still lousy when compared to oil.dave45 wrote:isn't it eminently feasible to produce oil/petrol from coal? (I think they did this during WW2?)
I think rather than (or as well as) individuals needing to make adjustments there needs to be infrastructure change as well, i.e. viable public transport not one bus a week (I know that isn't long-term sustainable either but I imagine better lots of people being on a bus that everyone being in cars). Because I honestly don't see realistically how someone in a rural community with no public transport can manage without a car unless they never leave their village or get taxis or lifts (which is kind of defeating the point). Do everything on the internet? I'm not being argumentative, I honestly don't see.gregorach wrote:People live in rural settlements without private motor transport (with emphasis on the words private and motor) all over the world, and have done throughout history. It can be done, but you will have to make some adjustments.
Certainly. I perhaps should have said "we" rather than "you". But there's a hole-in-my-bucket problem here - running public transport is impractical unless people are going to use it, and they're not going to use it as long as they can hop in the car.Susie wrote:I think rather than (or as well as) individuals needing to make adjustments there needs to be infrastructure change as well, i.e. viable public transport not one bus a week (I know that isn't long-term sustainable either but I imagine better lots of people being on a bus that everyone being in cars).
Local shops? Car sharing? Car clubs? Organising bulk purchases? "Public" transport doesn't necessarily have to mean "buses run by a commercial operator". A lot of the problem is that car culture has destroyed the basic infrastructure that used to make rural life possible - this will need to be rebuilt. And there were plenty of people in the village I grew up in who very rarely left it... We will almost certainly have to alter our expectations of mobility.Because I honestly don't see realistically how someone in a rural community with no public transport can manage without a car unless they never leave their village or get taxis or lifts (which is kind of defeating the point). Do everything on the internet? I'm not being argumentative, I honestly don't see.
http://chateaumoorhen.blogspot.com/boboff wrote:Oh and just for MMM,(thanks)
I'm doomed if we have to go back to riding horses! They don't take any notice of me. I tried it when I was young and had a horsey friend. I swear the stable used to bring out the most awkward evil old creature as soon as they saw me coming. He was completely set in his ways and he thought I was just a brief inconvenient interlude between nibbling on his hay or intimidating the horse in the next stall or whatever it is horses do. And he was so hairy! Who knew horses could be so hairy? I always thought they were brown and sleek.greenorelse wrote: People used to live with very little transport apart from sail, animals and feet.
Ah, sorry, that would be me... I tend to assume that if people care about such things they make sure their filters work, so if it's not filtered, it's OK. I shall restrain myself in future.Millymollymandy wrote:Guys I just got a bit bored going through asterisking out the F words - there should be a swear word filter for that word but it appears to be not working, or maybe it's just been set up for the 4 letter word, not the one with 'ed' on the the end!
So can you please not use it as there are people of all ages reading this forum. Thank you.
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