Knock..Knock..whose there?....Armageddon.......

[Big Al]

.....put away your doomer tin hats everyone. Humans are the most adaptable species on the planet, so we need to adapt. Better to learn the skills to feed and care for yourself and your family rather than taking on a bunker mentality and stockpiling stuff bought in the shops.

Even the British government tells the people to stockpile 3 months worth of supplies "in case of unforseen emergencies" and I reckon someone who knows the acronim WTSHTF is already prepared.

[contadina]

I do have a well stocked larder, but only with food I've grown and preserved myself (aside from Marmite and porridge oats picked up on the annual trip back to the UK).

[oldfella]

But, put away your doomer tin hats everyone. Humans are the most adaptable species on the planet, so we need to adapt. Better to learn the skills to feed and care for yourself and your family rather than taking on a bunker mentality and stockpiling stuff bought in the shops.[/quote]

In the early 50s the cry was "never again" and like many others I believed it, for awhile until I learnt that the biggest power in the world, had taken all the atomic scientist from Germany to build bigger and better bombs than the ones dropped on Japan, "so much for never again". Through out my life I have seen the greed that drives the Human species, but very little adaption, to the needs of the world as a whole, but only the rape of those that are worse off than ourselves, the murder of thousands, for the benefit of those who can blow this planet apart.
So yes we try to protect our kin, and I agree that the bunker mentality is of no use, by the same token, neither is the believe that mankind can change, for history would suggest the opposite.

[Big Al]

I know what's depressing you Old Fella.......... Your in FRANCE ...

[MandyWB]

I firmly believe that we will only get through the difficult years ahead by pulling together as communities whilst being as self-reliant as possible. I feel that it is so important to make as many links as possible in our local communities even though you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall sometimes.

Starting up this thread(and I think it should perhaps stop now) may have made me feel a bit less isolated,but clearly it drags up loads of stuff that should stay buried it's just impondereable

Starting this thread was really important. If we leave stuff buried it weighs us down and stops us from putting things into action. I've recently come across DVD's and a book by Joanna Macy called "Coming Back to Life" which deals with these very issues and encourages people to face and verbalise all these fears (and the fact that we might not be able to turn it around) but then goes on to show how this can then give us the inspiration and belief in ourselves to start to make a difference.

So well done oldjerry and let's keep chasing those monsters out into the light.

[oldfella]

"Wot me depressed" I have the best cure for depression in the world living here, as I live within half an hours drive of four some of best wine regions in France Bordeux,Cahor,Duras, Bergerac. So with friends all in the business, and a few bottles of the homemade, ain't got time to get depressed.

So come down and join me

[123sologne]

Anyway, if there must be an Armageddon, all of us here are in the best positions to survive as we can grow things, forage from the land. All of us seam to be also pretty ready to build all type of things! I think whatever happens to the world, we are among the survivors.

[frozenthunderbolt]

These are good points, but i would say:
1. Have a discreate bunker all the same - haveing some food stockpiled helps to insure you against inflation so long as you follow the rule of FIFO and buy when things are on sale. Then, in the even of "unforseen events" you can survive, and help others to do the same until we can turn over more land to food production rather than lawn - think Cuba.
2. Having skills, and the tools to cary them out even if not the materials is monumentaly more usefull than simply piling up stuff.
3. Having and encouraging relocalised community structures where there are many people with 2. and the adaptibility to use them sensibly is just as crucial.
At a certain point (sometimes even now) people need to very politely thumb their noses at centralised and inefficent government reliant on the energy subsidy of fossil fuels to be 'efficient' and do what is sensible, not what is right.
Note; this is not an insitement to break the law or be a cowboy, simply an acknowledgement that the time will come to ignore red tape put up for red tapes sake.
4. Increasing community ressilliance can be both covert (think gurillia gardening / sugesting eddible planting to council / supporting cycleway proposals etc.) and overt (transistion town movement, green wizard initiative etc.) either way, those of us who have the skills and knowledge to help drones convert themselves and their resources (land, time, materials etc.) into somthing productive, have a moral obligation to share that knowledge in a way that can be accessed. Ish is one prime example of many possibilities.
The more learning and skill building that can be shared and aquired now, the less that has to be learnt under personal duress (not in terms of and external agent/s but rather personal realities in relation to external conditions) when time will be infinitely more precious than it is now.
I could blow on more, I may later; this is probably enough soap-boxing from me for now.

[Big Al]

those of us who have the skills and knowledge to help drones convert themselves and their resources (land, time, materials etc.) into somthing productive, have a moral obligation to share that knowledge in a way that can be accessed. Ish is one prime example of many possibilities.
The more learning and skill building that can be shared and aquired now, the less that has to be learnt under personal duress (not in terms of and external agent/s but rather personal realities in relation to external conditions) when time will be infinitely more precious than it is now.
I could blow on more, I may later; this is probably enough soap-boxing from me for now.

I am all for cosy helping neighbours etc and do almost every day and often several times a day etc but we have a couple of people in our grove of 20 houses who are beligerent selfish dickheads. Our grove is a culdesac and at the bottom of a 1 in 3 hill that doesnot get gritted. Therefore it is dowen to the people to grit the road to get the cars out. For the first time this year 4 of the healthy men cleared a bit of the road but one of the negative neighbours wouldn't help as he has a 4x4 and can't see why he should help when he won't benefit from his labours. his words not mine.

He shops exclusivly at Te$7o and high end shops etc makes no bones about how wealthy he is and he is keen to take pleasure in others downfalls. Why should I help him in his "hour of need " when he won't build up a credit of goodwill?

I probably would help him in an armageddon set up but he would pay damn well and not in money terms.....

[frozenthunderbolt]

Yep. Some people will face more forced social reconditioning than others in that kind of situation. Given that they tend to think life is a god given right not something to be sweated for they are also probably a good enough reason (depending on their belligerence) to keep a stout blackthorn walking-stick to hand. 'Nuff said.

[Turtuga Blanku]

You should not close your eyes for reality, but at the same time, it is no use not being positive. Doom thinking just is not productive in any way. Remember, as a consumer, you have more power than you think, to help change what you want to see changed in the world.

[GregTraver]

Wow! Okay, so maybe it's not Armageddon (yet) but my word, is it me or does it seem like the inmates are running the asylum? It feels like a full time job NOT to get caught up in all the 'stuff' that is continually shoveled out from various Governments and media outlets. The popularity of reality television and senseless entertainment pursuits does not inspire a lot of Faith in some of my peers. I know that some people will never get it, never will want to because they are content living inside their bubble, content in their own ignorance. They used to be a minority, but now? Remember when common sense used to be a lot more common? At least I can find a bit of comfort here in the normal world! LOL! I never dreamed that I would see my country being torn apart and economically ruined on purpose because some people think that it isn't fair that we are not suffering like some third world country! We were taught in my generation to learn from history and now it seems to be more important to rewrite! I guess what get's to me the most is the thought of what my girls are going to be going through long after I am gone and that is heavy on my heart. We have all these little groups that have protections to say and do anything no matter how vile or offensive and yet to say anything that does not agree is to be condemned and even prosecuted in some cases. Anytime I have ever read about these things being established in a culture things don't end up turning out very well.

[Thomzo]

Wow, aren't we all doom and gloom! I suppose I have an advantage in that I don't have any kids with futures to worry about.

I have to disagree with the sentiment that nothing changes. Just look at how much has changed in the UK in the last 200-300 years. The industrial revolution, electricity, vaccines, women's suffrage... the list goes on (and those are just a few examples picked at random - don't beat me up because I didn't pick your favourite changes). We are learning all the time.

My point is that humans ARE adaptable, it just takes a bit of time. So what if food gets a bit more expensive? People will simply buy less Chinese plastic tat which will redress the balance.

The world will eventually even out. China will get to a point where the wages are too high to make it economical for the rest of the world to send all its manufacturing there. In fact, that's already happening. India is already at the point where businesses don't bother sending their call centres there, some are even pulling them back. Other countries yet to have their day but it will come and then everybody will be approximately equal in terms of their standard of living. I fully believe that the world will be a much better place once that happens. Wars will be unnecessary then. The rarity of a resource will dictate its value and recycling will become a necessity.

Worrying about something that you can't change is just pointless. Keep your chin up, it will be OK, different but OK.

Zoe

[GregTraver]

I don't know if it is as much doom and gloom as it is facing reality. I am sure there were plenty of Mayans that thought things were going to work out, the same for the Romans and history is replete with other examples. I'm sorry, I am not intending to stir the pot in any way, I'm just of the mind to speak up and say "HECK NO!" Not sit back and wait to see how it all turns out. I would think that one could objectively look at our friends in Greece and realize that the same scenario is coming here unless more people wake up and embrace the self- sufficient"ish" character traits albeit on a much larger (national) scale. There used to be a popular saying that went something like this, "Those who fail to learn from history are destined to make the same mistakes" The fact is that there is NO example in all of history of any nation that is able to sustain itself by being a nanny for everyone. Unfortunately some are more content to re-write history than to teach it (or learn it) When you think of it, it kind of flies in the face of natural selection! Can you imagine this scene playing out on the Serengeti? A lion is ready to take down a crippled gazelle and a jeep drives up with a couple government officials and says to the Lion, "Oh no! you can't do that! That would not be fair!" It's silly I know, but no more ludicrous than to penalize someone who is earning a living by creating a value exchange and then having a majority of it taken away in order to pay the way of someone who does not care to work for themselves. But hey, that's just my opinion (and we all know what that is worth, And Oh! That was a good bit of wisdom from you Mandy, well said, thanks!