chickens and bird flu...is it worth it?

[simony3]

Hi

got the allotment and on a steep learning curve but..

I really really want some chickens but I'm worried that if the whole bird flu thing cracks off again but in a more serious way they will become a danger to my family or if not I will be required to kill them?

Or perhaps in the event of an apocolyptic scenario where the country grinds to a halt because people are croaking all over the place, then perhaps my own eggs might be quite handy?

the news has become very quet on the issue, but will the winter fire it up again?

should i still get a few chickens?

any opinions?


fanks

simony

[baldowrie]

my opinion for what it's worth..how many people actually caught it and died? and how many do you know?


Get your chooks!

Just as caution if you are planing to keep them on the allotment check the regs, ditto for back yards.

[bwaymark]

Hiya,

There are roughly 8 billion chickens in the world and a handful of people who died from bird flu. Its also possible that by exposing yourself to chickens, if bird flu mutates into something like the Spanish flu, you will have developed anti-bodies against it. At least, that's my theory.

Chickens are great, the eggs are out of the world, they taste nice, but they do tend die a lot. My own personal, and perhaps controversial, opinion is that if you think you are unable to kill (or get a vet to kill) a very sick or injured chicken (or any other animal) who shouldn't keep them. By having a pet or livestock you become the custodian of that animal and have to make life and death decisions for them. If you can't, then simply don't :-). On a similar note, if you don't think you can comfortably handle birds, then don't keep them. They do have to be checked for mites and you may want to clip their wings etc.

And while I am lecturing, don't believe people when they make it sound really complicated. Because its not. Its dead easy. All they need is a decent (dry and wind free) place to sleep, food and water.... maybe the occasional check for this and that. I've been keeping chooks for getting on five years now its great.....

-Ben.

[red]

the whole bird flu thing is just on hold at the mo - it will start up again as the migration seasons turn once more.

then its a difficult question - and I am also deliberating as we are about to be in the position to be able to keep hens if we so decide.

On one hand - you are potentially bringing danger closer to home having your own hens.. then again, if you build a run which is enclosed, the hens should be protected and then you have your own source of eggs and maybe meat, that you know the history over, and so thats reassuring. Of course you have to get your hens from somewhere.. so thats soemthing else - I would be cautious over getting them from market, where they are mixed with lots of other birds... but... if you know someone you trust who can supply then thats a different matter.

[bwaymark]

Even if you get birds at market, you've got more changes of winning two lotteries, at the exact same moment as you do from catching bird flu. Also, if bird flu does mutate into a form that transmits from person to person, it will be your contact with people, not birds, that will transmit the flu. The worst that will happen with normal bird flu (ie: one that doesn't transmit person to person) is you'll have to cull your stock, and, to be honest, chickens are quite tasty so it won't be that bad :-)

[Shirley]

We haven't let bird flu put us off keeping poultry. Bird flu has been on these shores before... from what I've read you would have to have extremely close contact with chickens before you caught bird flu from one even if your birds DID get infected...

[random]

I wouldn't let the threat of potential avain flu put me off keeping chickens. It was a media frenzy on slow news days last winter, but it all came to nothing. If you do decide to keep your own birds however make plans to have covered runs and some basic biosecurity measures as required by DEFRA should the unthinkable happen.

What I don't agree on is that

Chickens are great... ...but they do tend die a lot.

Good quality stock kept well should not in my opinion die a lot. They are very hardy creatures and with good husbandry are not prone to many diseases. In my flock visits to the vet are almost unheard of. However where there is livestock there will inevitably be dead stock and you should be prepared for this.

[Tensing]

We have 5 Bantams and 5 Ducks and are not worried about Avian Flu. WE practice good hygiene, hand washing after handling birds etc, washing wellies when we have been in the run or elsewhere.

They people who died of bird flue have all lived and worked in very close proximity to infected birds, most have had birds living in and around the house in not very clean conditions, nothing like the way birds are kept in this country.

[bwaymark]

Good quality stock kept well should not in my opinion die a lot. They are very hardy creatures and with good husbandry are not prone to many diseases. In my flock visits to the vet are almost unheard of. However where there is livestock there will inevitably be dead stock and you should be prepared for this.

I should qualify my statement a bit more with 'compared to pets like dogs and cats'. Over the years I've lost a half dozen chooks to an out of control dog, one off an edge and into a river, three to what I believe was marek's disease (bought from a market and died shortly after), a cockeral that was killed by the other cockeral (this one was my fault two and you shouldn't keep two cockerals together, but as they were getting along I just left them), and some six chicks to a bird of prey (my fault again for letting them out too young) and two to what I believe was a lynx but may have been a fox.

Everyone else I've talked to who keeps chickens have similar experiences. Even the most fortified of enclosures get compromised by a fox (unless you want to keep them battery-hen style, which you shouldn't).

So when I say die a lot, please don't think its normal to have all your stock die on you! :-)

[simony3]

all i can say is what a great forum with loads of people who really know what they are on about.

thanks

(was that too sucky uppy?)

anyway, I am suitably reassured and now intend to delve the rest of the forum for stuff about the how to go about this venture.

any pointers to suppliers?

simony

[bwaymark]

Best bet is to find a local supplier cause, well, its local. When I got my first chickens I was in London and without any local suppliers I orderdered a starter kit, which costs about £300 or £400 for the chickens, a house, a feeder, a drinker some feed, straw etc. Eventually I found a city-farm type place that sold chicken feed too. This is a very, very, very exspensive way of doing, but at the time I was employed, making good money, and didn't have the time or tools to make a chicken house and all that. It was also nice because they had a 'peck support' that told you all about what to do. I also spent about £100 on books, which generally said the same thing as was on the 'net and didn't really help all that much.

I got my stuff from here: http://www.poultrypen.co.uk/ (the Mallen Midi Starter Kit with run, which is now £305... can't remember how much it was when I got it but I think it was a bit more then...).

If there is one bit of kit you are going to spend money on, get a good, galvanised steel drinker. The plastic get brittle and break if it gets too cold, and at least all the home made ones I've tried tip, fall, get full of poo and otherwise don't work. If its at an alotment its especially worth having something that won't fall. Chickens don't last long without water....

[baldowrie]

I would agree with the drinker and if you are going to be feeding them in a feeder get a galavansed one of those too. It may cost a bit to begin with but worth it in the end.

[random]

The only down side to glavanised drinkers is, if you intend to use Cider Apple Vinager as a vitamin/mineral suppliment it corrodes the metal drinkers.

[bwaymark]

The only down side to glavanised drinkers is, if you intend to use Cider Apple Vinager as a vitamin/mineral suppliment it corrodes the metal drinkers.

Really? How much and often do add cider vinager? I usually just add a few cap fulls every once and a while, I wouldn't have thought it'd be enough to make a difference.... do you always add it? How long does it take to start rusting?

[random]

I add cider apple vinager at 2% solution every other week as a general tonic. I found that it removes the galvanised coating quite quickly.