Can anyone help me with frontpage?

[shiney]

I need some help with lining up my stuff on my website. I use Frontpage and wondered if any of you can help me? Andy, Martin, Dave?

[wulf]

Professionally, my advice would be to give up on front page and learn how to do it properly

Granted that (a) I spend all day working on website design so it's easy for me to say that and (b) that it is seven or eight years since I last really looked at Frontpage in earnest, but I hated the program. The one thing I liked was the way I could look at a page and see how it linked to other pages and images but that did nothing to offset the way it would take great liberties with my designs. Everything would be lined up perfectly and then I'd save it and it would all go squiffy again!

Apart from the fact it makes web page design like trying to cook while wearing your oven gloves all the time, I remain far from convinced that products like Frontpage are a good idea. Being based round the idea of WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) is a bad idea because, unless you know that all the visitors to your site are going to be using the same browser on the same operating system at the same screen resolution, a lot of those assumptions go out the window and what you see is not what they get.

If you are willing to wean yourself away from FP, I'd certainly be willing to give some pointers in web page design.

Wulf

[The Chili Monster]

Hi Shiney
You could find a static site you like in terms of layout, go into the view menu (at top of page between Edit and Go) and click on Page Source, then copy and paste the code into the HTML editor of FP. Then just edit to suit. Note this probably won't work on a dynamic site (lots of moving objects, interactive texts, forms and so on) and so you are limited.
ALSO YOU DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT THIS FROM ME.

I find myself in the same position as you but what Wulf is probably too well-mannered to say is that Frontpage is pants but Dreamweaver is expensive, and much harder to master.
You could invest in a copy of HTML for Dummies but personally I find the "dash of humour and fun" just brings out sarcasm and violent tendencies to put it mildly.

[shiney]

So guys you aren't that enamoured with FP! It's the only programme I have I'm afraid. It does the job, gets customers and plenty of hits to my pages, but I am such an amateur and I stumble along in the dark all the time with it.

I am pleased with the fact that I have actually managed to build a website from scratch for the first time ever and that it does the job I want it too. It's just getting the top banner to line up with the rest of the page. (It's too long at the top and is longer than the body of the rest of it.)

Ho hum. Wulf build me a site in your coffee break please!

[den_the_cat]

Frontpage (the newer versions of it) is fine - I do websites as well and while I code I think WYSIWYG's are great for getting people online and even in total novice drawing tables mode it doesn't put in those nasty tags that both it and dreamweaver used to do any more - its perfectly valid code now, if a bit quirky when it nests things.

Shiney do you mean that the banner is too wide (left to right) or that the top bit of the page scrolls down for ages.

If the banner is too wide - is it that the graphic is too big (in which case do you have photoshop or something?) or that there's lots of space around it? Thats different problems.

If its that it scrolls too much, click once on the image, and then click on the 'code' tab in frontpage. Don't get freaked out by the code - your curser should be flashing on the image bit of the code (something like <img src="myimage.jpg border ="0">, after the > are there a lot of <br><br><br> 's?

[The Chili Monster]

I wasn't knocking your efforts, Shiney, more highlighting the limitations of Frontpage.
Is it in a table? If so you need to shrink the table. Or increase the side of the table(s) the rest of the page are in ...

[shiney]

Yeah I understood where you were coming from Chilli, no probs honest!

I'll get there in the end!

[Andy Hamilton]

there is a free version of Dreamweaver that you can use for 30 days on a trail. I thought front page was awful and have read webnews stories about the death of front page and the like, so quite universal. I used it about 2 years ago and did not get on with it at all.

[Stonehead]

You could also try [url=tp://www.nvu.com/]Nvu[/url]. It's free, available for Macs, Windows and Linux, and aimed at the non-professional. The main downside I found with the version I tried was the lack of a facility to create and arbitrarily position DIV blocks, but that's a niggle and you can work around it. (it may have been improved since then, too.)

It's a definite improvement on FrontPage and good for building simple, small sites.

As for myself, I've used BBEdit (Mac only) for years. I've tried various other HTML and text editors across Macs, Windows and Linux and always find myself sticking with BBEdit. But, it really is a pro tool.

[bwaymark]

Hiya,

What is the URL of your site? If you want I can have a look.

-Ben (who builds webpages for a living, see: www.ruralwebsites.com)

[The Chili Monster]

Muddy suggested Nvu to me a few months back. I'm tinkering with it and so far it's doing what it says on the box (if it had one). It is a Pro's tool, as Stoney points out, but there is a wiki and help available.
My main gripe with FP is that whereas your site looks great on your own machine, it rarely looks great elsewhere.
Still, we're not really helping Shiney to solve her problem ... and for some sites, FP is adequate (it does really depend on who you are trying to attract to your site, and what you want from that site.)

[shiney]

Thanks everyone, I am still dazed and confused! Den the cat has given me a couple of pointers which has been helpful. But I guess FP is just a load of crud. Should I be brave and try and learn a new package? I've only just got the hang is this one!

[The Chili Monster]

Hi Shiney,
Like FP, Nvu offers a WYSIWYG facility. It just so happens that it can grow as your web design skills develop. I find it speaks "Dreamweaver" and so it can prove a useful stepping stone to using that package.
Meanwhile, look at the code in the HTML editor of Frontpage. Fiddle with the code and click back to the WYSIWYG bit to see what happens. You'll soon find that you are picking up snippets of HTML without realising it! Learndirect offers courses in web design based on HTML and Frontpage, which are really quite inexpensive, plus you can learn at home at your own pace but there's a tutor at the end of the line should you need assistance.
OR you may get lucky and get the funding to do an online-course:
www.vision2learn.com
(Shirlz2005 put me onto that) - I couldn't get the funding but you may be lucky!

[bwaymark]

Thanks everyone, I am still dazed and confused! Den the cat has given me a couple of pointers which has been helpful. But I guess FP is just a load of crud. Should I be brave and try and learn a new package? I've only just got the hang is this one!

To be honest, I think you'll be alright with FrontPage, its not great, but its as good as anything, especially if you aren't familiar with HTML. If you want to learn how to develop webpages more broadly, I'd say pick up "HTML" for dummies then maybe a 'learn yerself Dreamweaver' book. Dreamweaver is generally what most developers use.

[shiney]

Thanks Chilli and Ben. I am pleased that everyone here gives good advice to the amateur webmistress.

I have had a look at the NVU site and it looks like even I could master it. It's just the setting it all up to go to my hosting server that bothers me. I am SURE everything will be OK and I'll muddle my way through it. (I don't like to be beaten by stuff on the pc ~ honest!)