protecting chickens from their nasty enemies...

[burek]

The chickens are free range when we are at home (weekends and most days from 12) but are kept in a large fenced enclosure while we are out in the mornings.

The season is changing now and the trees that form a protective canopy over their enclosure are losing their leaves, leaving them more exposed.

Another seasonal change is an increase in hungry creatures... and a pair of eagles have been getting closer and closer to us over the last few weeks. A couple of weeks ago I 'chased' off one of them that was circling very close above the garden. And last week I was lucky enough to come out of the house just before another one (or the same one) was SAT on the fence two feet away from the henhouse. Luckily our cockerel is excellent at spotting danger and had all of the chickens safely inside already, and my appearance scared the bird off.

So as you can imagine, we've become a bit paranoid about leaving the chickens unattended...

To make matters worse one of the chickens was badly attacked a couple of days ago INSIDE the henhouse (where she was laying/resting), leaving her to die slowly with a massive hole in her chest. Poor poor thing. We obviously had to put her out of her misery. There was absolutely no way for her to recover. We're not sure what did this but it wasn't a bird because it was indoors. Our neighbours say it sounds like a skunk ( I didn't even know there were skunks in Europe!!) because they like to suck chicken blood but a stray cat has been seen watching the chickens on a few occasions since then too.

Sooooooo (sorry, this is longer than planned!) does anyone have any help for me on:
1) birds of prey going for chickens and if so, what to do about this.
2) whether the recent attack was possibly by a cat, and if so, any thoughts on discouraging it from coming back
3) anything at all on skunks
4) whether we should actually consider giving up on keeping chickens at all. Sounds very final and self-doubting but I worry now that our mornings away from the house are not in keeping with the good care of livestock. Would hate not to have my chickens though...

Thanks in advance.

[red]

is there anyway you can cover the run? preferably with something visable to eagles? netting etc?

as for the attack inside the house.. have you seen a cat about? chase if yo do.. otherwise not sure what to suggest. if its some other kind of vermin, perhaps look for signs of runs etc?

no idea on skunks. sorry.

[fenwoman]

The chickens are free range when we are at home (weekends and most days from 12) but are kept in a large fenced enclosure while we are out in the mornings.

The season is changing now and the trees that form a protective canopy over their enclosure are losing their leaves, leaving them more exposed.

Another seasonal change is an increase in hungry creatures... and a pair of eagles have been getting closer and closer to us over the last few weeks. A couple of weeks ago I 'chased' off one of them that was circling very close above the garden. And last week I was lucky enough to come out of the house just before another one (or the same one) was SAT on the fence two feet away from the henhouse. Luckily our cockerel is excellent at spotting danger and had all of the chickens safely inside already, and my appearance scared the bird off.

So as you can imagine, we've become a bit paranoid about leaving the chickens unattended...

To make matters worse one of the chickens was badly attacked a couple of days ago INSIDE the henhouse (where she was laying/resting), leaving her to die slowly with a massive hole in her chest. Poor poor thing. We obviously had to put her out of her misery. There was absolutely no way for her to recover. We're not sure what did this but it wasn't a bird because it was indoors. Our neighbours say it sounds like a skunk ( I didn't even know there were skunks in Europe!!) because they like to suck chicken blood but a stray cat has been seen watching the chickens on a few occasions since then too.

Sooooooo (sorry, this is longer than planned!) does anyone have any help for me on:
1) birds of prey going for chickens and if so, what to do about this.
2) whether the recent attack was possibly by a cat, and if so, any thoughts on discouraging it from coming back
3) anything at all on skunks
4) whether we should actually consider giving up on keeping chickens at all. Sounds very final and self-doubting but I worry now that our mornings away from the house are not in keeping with the good care of livestock. Would hate not to have my chickens though...

Thanks in advance.

For the eagles, hang old cds and dvds on string from the trees. Cats are unlikely to attack chickens. They don't move right for them and a whack of a wing against a cat would disuade it. I have always had lost of cats and lots of chickens, including bantams, and never lost one to a cat. It may have been a rat.
You could always fence their run properly. That means wire on the floor of the run aswell as the sides and roof, a secure house raised off the ground and shut the birds in every night.

[burek]

many thanks for the replies, fenwoman and red. I'm becoming more convinced that it is that cat now as I chased it off again this morning, just as it was jumping up over the fence. I know it is unusual for a cat to go for a chicken but this isn't a domestic cat. It's feral/stray. It has always lived on this hill and lives wild. We have a dog but he is chained when we are out (he would wander the countryside and get himself shot if we let him off all the time) so although he can make a lot of noise he can't chase him off. I think the cat has finally worked out that he is at no risk from the dog...

as for the eagles, your cd/dvd idea is great. I haven't any handy at the mo but it did give me another idea - I have a large ball of coloured ribbon/string (the type used on present wrapping) that I will tie between the branches to make it impossible, or at least very difficult, for large birds to sweep in. ANd they won't be able to land on it either, hopefully. Fingers crossed.

I'm very aware that these predators (eagles, skunks, cats!) are not run-of-the-mill for all chicken owners on this site but I know that there are members all over the world and I came on here hoping that there'd be some tips out there. Certainly so far it has helped me come up with one idea

[fenwoman]

many thanks for the replies, fenwoman and red. I'm becoming more convinced that it is that cat now as I chased it off again this morning, just as it was jumping up over the fence.

Thank goodness you are not a prosecution lawyer.
"Well m'lud, a person was murdered and the accused was walking near where the murder happened a few days later so he must be the murderer"

I know it is unusual for a cat to go for a chicken but this isn't a domestic cat. It's feral/stray. It has always lived on this hill and lives wild. We have a dog but he is chained when we are out (he would wander the countryside and get himself shot if we let him off all the time) so although he can make a lot of noise he can't chase him off. I think the cat has finally worked out that he is at no risk from the dog...

In 30 years of keeping poultry and lots of cats and living where there are 2 feral cats, I have never
known a cat take a chicken. They don't look like prey, they don't sound like prey, they are too large to be prey. It would be like a lion taking on an elephant. Just cos the cat was around, doesn't mean it is the culprit. More like a rat did it and the cat is after the rats. If the cat had killed the bird, it would have been for food, if it had been for food, it would have taken the whole body away. Since the bird was killed and just part eaten I would again suspect a much smaller predator like a rat or weasel. Cats just don't operate in the way you described, besides it would be loath to go inside an enclosed henhouse especially if it was feral as you describe. Do you have a proper baiting regime to control the rats?

as for the eagles, your cd/dvd idea is great. I haven't any handy at the mo but it did give me another idea - I have a large ball of coloured ribbon/string (the type used on present wrapping) that I will tie between the branches to make it impossible, or at least very difficult, for large birds to sweep in. ANd they won't be able to land on it either, hopefully. Fingers crossed.

I personally would not drape wool or ribbon or anything else for fear of entagnling and killing other animals or birds. You missed my point entirely on the cds. The aim is that you drill a little hole on one edge and suspend by means of black cotton or fishing line. The cd twists and twirls in the slightest breeze and the litle flashes off it. Every time it turns it flashes differently. The eagles see this flash and think it is a person standing there. All birds will avoid this moving flashing. Bits of coloured ribbon just look like bits of coloured ribbon and they won't associate it with danger. Besides it'll look a mess. If you have none spare, PM me your address and I'll send you some as I seem to have loads. It seems every magazine over here has one in and most supermarkets have them by the checkouts to promote their own ISP.Just give me the word and you will have as many eagle deterrants as you could want, winging their way to you. I use these plus wind chimes hanging in the trees to deter predators since the flash and the jangle of noise would make any predator very wary in case it was a human walking about.

I'm very aware that these predators (eagles, skunks, cats!) are not run-of-the-mill for all chicken owners on this site but I know that there are members all over the world and I came on here hoping that there'd be some tips out there. Certainly so far it has helped me come up with one idea

According to Wiki there are no skunks in Bosnia although plenty other predatory species including pine marten and wild cats although a wild cat again would not go into an enclosed henhouse and if it did it would just grab the bird and take it away not leave it sitting with a hole in its chest. You need to look at what would attack a hen and be too small to kill it properly or take the whole body away and rat immediately springs to mind. Then you need to ask how the predator got into the enclosed run and prevent this happening and why a fully grown healthy bird would simply sit quietly while a predator ate a hole into it's chest cos sure as hell none of mine would sit still while it got bitten, any of mine would scream, flap, run etc. Was the bird sick? If not, why did it not make a noise or run away from the predator since the henhouse was open so the bird could have run out.
It might be a good idea to fence an area of your land say with electric netting. This would confine your dog and enable him to do his job as a guard dog and defend your property and livestock when you are not there. It would also ensure that most predators could not get near your livestock in the first place.If you won't fence then instead of chaining the dog, use a running tether to enable him to run about freely yet still not get off your land. (I hate dogs being chained as it starts off just to confine them but then ends up permanent as it's convenient because he might wander when you are busy and not able to watch him, so the animal spends its whole life on a 6 foot chain and owners wonder why they go stir crazy and end up savage or uncontrollable if they get off)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ma ... erzegovina

[burek]

okaaaaaaaay
I consider myself well and truly told off. I can see that you have not understood everything I said. Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough (that's the problem with virtual conversations), but in any case I don't think I will take the time today to go through this with you. I have always found SSish to be a very friendly and welcoming place. It has always helped me get advice and it has been fun 'meeting' new people in similar positions. Your last post has soured the site for me though, and I doubt I will return after today. Whether you realise it or not you have managed to insult me.
Many thanks to the many other politer people I have met on here. Lots of luck to all in your SS lives. Goodbye.

[Millymollymandy]

Burek please come back!

If you have a look at this thread on another forum, go to page 3 for the grisly photos of the poor hen - it was probably a feral cat that did the damage and the OP is not the only person who has heard of or has had chickens attacked by feral cats.

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum ... &&start=30

[Millymollymandy]

Fenwoman, you have upset yet another member of this forum. At this rate soon there will be nobody daring to ask another poultry question here for fear of your harsh responses. They are NOT friendly despite what you may think! Please re-read what you write before you post it. Thank you.

[Wombat]

Burek please come back!

I'll second that!

Mate! Don't let the grouchy old lady put you off!

Nev

[red]

If you have a look at this thread on another forum, go to page 3 for the grisly photos of the poor hen - it was probably a feral cat that did the damage and the OP is not the only person who has heard of or has had chickens attacked by feral cats.

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum ... &&start=30

eww yes grisly photos indeed! - poor hen. seems to be mixed opinions on that other forum as to what animal might have done it.

in all the time my family have had hens we have not known of a cat attacking them (dogs and foxes yes) but then we have not had trouble with rats attacking them either (being a problem, and making off with eggs, yes but not attacking) and that happens. I guess when something like this happens, best to consider ALL the possibilities.

[Millymollymandy]

I think you have to take into consideration that in Bosnia and even in France, there will be many more wild/feral cats than in England. I can't speak for Bosnia but France is not a nation of pet lovers; most cats are not speyed and farmers etc just drown the kittens or dump them in ditches or in the gardens of houses owned by English people, who then try to rehome them on the French forums.

[red]

well yes - particularly wild cats - we have no experience of these ! and truly feral cats are probably more willing to take a risk for a meal.

you would think they would make off with the whole bird though. Often hens are killed to silence them, and only one is taken, but just taking a bite seems most odd, and I would assume something small and gnawy like a rat. Poor bird though - horrible thing to happen.

[burek]

I am feeling brave today.

I have always been taught to be nice to others in order to be treated well yourself. I have also been taught to always give people the benefit of the doubt so here goes…

I want to add to my earlier posts and also give Fenwoman the benefit of the doubt.

I tried to keep my OP short and readable and by doing that I didn’t include some extra information that explained why I felt it was a feral cat that attacked the chicken. Perhaps if I had inclued it my suspicion of the feral cat would have been better understood and I wouldnot have offended Fenwoman so strongly. This information included:
- scratch marks identical to the ones in the photos posted on the other forum.
- the attack was almost certainly interrupted by both the cockerel and the frantic barking and jumping by our dog (evidenced by the fact he managed to break the roof of his kennel and his food bowl – not easy).
- animals/birds are perceptive creatures and the new way in which both the cockerel and the dog have since reacted to the cat being in the vicinity suggests that they are both aware it is a danger. Not scientific evidence but perhaps some would agree that I can ‘listen’ to what they are telling me.

I think that talking to our neighbours is very important because we all share the same environment and all keep chickens. One of them has since had an almost identical attack by the same cat and managed to chase it off. It is a large cat and she said it was holding down the chicken very effectively. It also went for the chest in that case. Luckily the damage wasn’t quite as bad but she still decided to put her chicken out of its misery too.

My chicken was in the best of health and there is no evidence of a rat problem. We keep an eye out for evidence of all predators and up until now we have never felt the need to bait. Eagles are of course still a problem, and even more now that all the leaves have fallen and there is snow on the ground to make a chicken stand out even more from the sky. My idea with the ribbon was to tie 3 or 4 strands between a few branches, not drape it all over the place. I apologise if the way I phrased it in my earlier post led anyone else to conclude that I would be cruelly entangling songbirds. The idea was to imitate the protection of branches whilst still being taut enough to avoid anything getting tangled in it. Eagles are large birds and need a clear path to swoop in and grab a chicken.

Skunks. I do not want to show disrespect to my neighbours and tell them that the animal they describe does not exist in Bosnia. I will continue to try and find out more about the animal they describe and find photographs in the nearest library sometime so that I can work out whether they do exist here or not. Whilst I like wikipedia, I don’t like using it as a concrete point of reference since its content is compiled by its users.

Whilst this is not at all related to my OP, I feel it is important to me that I clarify that I do not keep my dog chained up and on the verge of insanity. He is chained but his chain is actually attached to a 30 metre cable (or running tether, as it is also known). His kennel is right next to the chicken enclosure and he plays an important role in helping to at least deter predators. Unfortunately the enclosure has four sides and so far we have not been able to invent a tether that goes all the way around the enclosure for when we are out. When we are at home he can be off the chain as long as we are about and able to ensure he doesn’t wander very far away. (But not at the same time as the chickens of course – they have to take turns!). He is a very big dog and we own an acre of land and well, quite frankly we cannot afford whatever fencing or walling we would need to keep an agile dog inside an acre! He is not a menace in the area with regard to livestock but the land around us is used by a number of different shepherds and it would be acceptable here for a dog to be dealt with for simply coming too close to someone’s valuable livestock. Life is different here. I do not live in the British countryside. I am not making excuses but I would prefer not to be judged and berated simply because I exist in a different culture.

I have reflected a lot on Fenwoman’s harsh response to my post and the further attack she sent me in a PM. I have also been helped to calm down a lot by Millymollymandy, who has proved herself an excellent ambassador for the SSish site. Following her kind emails I have also taken time to read some of Fenwoman’s other posts on the site and that has helped me come to realise that although she is – in my opinion – unnecessarily rude and personal in her responses to people, it is not always a conscious attitude. There was a mention in one of her previous posts that she suffered a difficult childhood and I wonder if perhaps this has made her quite angry in her day-to-day dealings? This is of course only based on reading her posts and the personal message and is only me trying to understand another person’s position. Whilst I will avoid any future interaction with Fenwoman, I am trying to put this behind me and accept that people can’t help being the way we are. Fenwoman can be who she is as long as I understand that it is more peaceful to avoid her. I hope that makes sense. I am typing my thoughts and as I have already found, a forum are not always the best place for clear communication!

I have been using SSish for help and advice for over a year. It has been my first year of self sufficiency. I have learnt so much, achieved more than I expected, and have enjoyed it more than I can say. I have to admit to myself that I actually can’t walk away completely from the site because I still have so much to learn, but I will from now on be a ‘lurker’. A horrible term but I think it is a better solution for me!

[red]

ah dont lurk Burek... stay around a while - it'll be fine.. honest!

as for the skunk.. I was wondering if they meant stoat?

only thinkg I can suggest is to pen your hens in completely sides and top - and then it wont really matter what predator it is..if it can't get it.

hope to see you 'here' more often

[Thomzo]

Hi Burek
It's good to see you back. Please don't let the ramblings of one inconsiderate old lady put you off. I think many of us have suffered at her hands. I don't think anybody else thought you were being cruel. You clearly care about all your animals and look after them well.

I can see your point about the ribbon. If it's impractical to cage the hens over then I can see how ribbon would work. If there's plenty of things tied to the ribbon then the eagles will see it and avoid it. It could look quite pretty.

You could even put some fairy lights along it

I believe you about the cat. Whilst it is probably less common for a cat in the UK to attack a chicken, I am guessing that wild cats in your area are a very different kind of animal.

Good luck in protecting your animals.

Zoe