Saving The Planet - Empty Gestures

[Clara]

Well done Mew! I think we only change the world through living by example, you´ve come a long way! Some of your changes are new ones on me (residual heat in kettles! genius), I shall try that out too.

What this thread is highlighting to me is that we all have our blindspots or perhaps the things we enjoy too much to let go of. Meat eating in particular seems contentious, I´m not sure that anyone can really argue that rearing animals for meat, however humanely and conscientiously, is "energy efficient" - Is there truely any land that is good for nowt else but pasture? No I´m not veggie either, though I might be after we kill the baby billy goat next week.

To move this debate on -Modern life is thoroughly ungreen - how far is far enough? How green do we have to get? How much should we be prepared to give up?

Clara x.

[Wombat]

To move this debate on -Modern life is thoroughly ungreen - how far is far enough? How green do we have to get? How much should we be prepared to give up?

Clara x.

I suspect that that can only be a personal decision based on the information you have, culture, personality and a crap load of other variables. I also suspect that between the "MEGACONSUMER" and the "I live in a cave and eat raw acorns" there is a continuum that most of us exist in. So the goal, it would seem to me, is to strive to move towards the raw acorns brigade as far as you are comfortable with, and to take as many people with you

Either that or check out real estate prices on caves and store yourself up some acorns

Nev

[Clara]

[quote="Wombat"

Either that or check out real estate prices on caves and store yourself up some acorns

Nev[/quote]

You´ve met some of my neighbours then

Yeah I think I found myself out because when I was reading Mew´s post and she mentioned hair straighteners and I started thinking "well that´s a waste of energy etc..." and then caught myself quickly because it´s obvious that she lives and works in a situation that expects certain standards. Whereas I live in a community where would probably have a certain amount of inverse snobbery about that kind of thing - caves generally don´t have plug sockets

I like the way you sum it up wombat, ever thought of writing one of those little books of "wisdom" you get on the counter at book stores?

Clara x.

[Wombat]

Thanks Clara!

I did try with my book "The Wisdom of Wombat" - .....................but the pages were blank!

Nev

[red]

Is there truely any land that is good for nowt else but pasture?
Clara x.

yes - higher grounds such as moorland, where sheep do well and crops don't do at all.

[catalyst]

i read some statistics recently about global resource use, which puts a different slant on this.
apparently something like 95% of the oil we burn goes into industry, industrial agriculture, and the military. the US has already used enough resources in Iraq and afghanistan to feed, clothe, educate and provide safe water for the whole world several times over.
what gets to me is all the millions of people who drive to work everyday, all their food is transported from slave economies in other parts of the world - then we think we can save the world by changing a few lightbulbs and taking holidays nearer to home.
BUT, there is hope in sight (in my opinion). as someone else said, we have hit PEAK OIL. oil is running out (read: The Party Is Over).
our society as we know it is doomed. it is time to break the shackles of corporate wage-slavery. things have to change, and i guess most people here have started the process by simply placing a few seeds in the ground.
i've just read Derrick Jensen's 'Endgame' - inspiring reading. his advice? stop beating ourselves over minor details, work towards creating sustainable land based communities, and take any steps you can to oppose and help the planet bring down the monster of corporate capitalism (the longer it takes to die, the bigger the social and environmental mess)...
andy.

[Clara]

Catalyst - I suspect we share some deep-green politics, but I had to take issue with Jensen about his view on justifiable violence. The problem being that when (for the sake of argument let´s be dreamers) we achieve this sustainable land-based community, people who have used and justified violence to achieve that end will not stop there. For reference, see every revolution to date.

Sure, I feel like throwing a brick through McD´s window - but will it make me a better person or improve society. Better to be the change and encourage everyone along with you - like wombat said.

Sorry, completely OT, not sure where we started now but I´ve been meaning to get that off my chest

Clara x.

[Wombat]

I don't believe for one minute that violence is justifiable. When you start down that long slippery slope of "the end justifies the means", where does it stop?

Nev

[Cornelian]

Has anyone ever read Voltaire's Candide? It is an 18th century novel, and it has a wonderful philosophy - essentially summed up as 'think not of the lights of Constantinople, but only of cultivating your own garden." - if you want to change something, then you just work away in your own little corner of the world, mind your own business, change your own life, and eventually ...

There's another philosophy - which name I can't think of - in that once x number of people in the world start to think a certain way, then the ways of the world are changed. Again, you need do little else than cultivate your own garden rather than weeding everyone else's.

[hamster]

Ooh, yes, I have! In fact, I'm supposed to be revising it now instead of posting on here, but let's skip over that...

I agree with you about the end - having shown us how all the big doctrines and systems have failed to provide a way of living a happy life, he says we should beaver away on our own little patch of land instead. Especially when you consider how much Voltaire loved nature (and hard work) and how he let this inspire his beliefs and philosophy rather than abstract thought.

Doesn't stop some pesky critics saying the garden is society and it's a call to social reform, though.... Or that the characters are withdrawing from the world, which is horribly defeatist and not going to change anything...

[catalyst]

jensen's premise is that in our society violence is endemic and not exactly acceptable but invisible, provided that violence is directed down the heirarchical ladder.
ie, bosses, landlords, govt, the police etc have power over us, that when we refuse to recognise that power quickly turns into violence.
and that violence is ignored, we are so used to it we dont even notice it. the teacher shouting at a school child. multimationals paying minimal wages to people in sweatshops, and killing union organisers.
also he doesnt differentiate between violence towards humans, 'native' peoples, animals or forests... ie the planet in general. which, as he says, our system is killing. we have created a hell on earth, of wage slavery, unwaged slavery, pollution, deforestation, species extinction, factory farms etc...
we are surrounded by violence. all going one way down the heirarchy.

he believes that it is justifiable to use violence to protect ourselves from violence and those who would enslave us.

[catalyst]

ps. and jensen doesnt advocate bricks through McDs, but he does have sympathy for Chiapas, who defend their community in mexico with weapons (and the mexican authorities think twice about confronting them, while time and time again 'nonviolent' indigenous communities have been wiped out for simply not wanting to be part of our slave system).