Closer to God in a garden

[Millymollymandy]

In my particular branch of the English language (Stewglish), a theist is someone who isn't an atheist (the words are perfect antonyms).

What about agnostics?

[hedgewizard]

What, so active atheism is needed to avoid the theist label?

We'd better knock this on the head I think... it's way too complicated and it isn't getting my spuds in!

[glenniedragon]

I'm full skepticism about Agnostics(!)

kind thoughts, and apologies for the poor lay on words
Deb

[Muddypause]

Look, it's not easy always being right, y'know! I end up having to argue with everyone.

(Hmm... I can see this may be a flawed way to appeal for sympathy).

[glenniedragon]

I wasn't having a dig Muddy, I was making a rather poor joke relating to the central skepticism of Agnosticism....I won't give up the day job- oh hang on my employers wouldn't let me anyhow (offspring)

kind thoughts
Deb

[Mandyz]

How fun. Trying to define religion. Well, needless to say the dictionary is always wrong when it comes to complex concepts.
(tee hee I just took joy in squashing a white fly! Stupid things. I'd gotten rid of them all, but they came back! now where was I before that fly flew past my nose? and really, what was it thinking? I squashed a slew of em this morning. Maybe he was suicidal.
MAYBE he no longer felt his life had any ultimate meaning...)

Oh yes, dictionaries - bad source for looking up words. And I really lost faith when they added ain't.

I was tempted to start ranting on about sociological definitions of this and that... but I just spent all day reading about The Family and I'm spent!

As for urban Paganism... the short answer is that for many reasons modern Paganism is a distinctly urban phenomenon, but there is a portion who live outside of suburbia. I have the stats filed somewhere. Not sure about Australia - I have fewer stats for there. Of course, it's easier to find Pagans in the urban areas. But I can also think of several big-name Pagans living off the grid.

Okay, this was my break. I have to get back to The Family so I can finish the book today and move on to the next tomorrow.
Pardon my great big *sigh*.
I really wish I was in my garden instead - that would also mean it's May and I'd finished my exam!

[hedgewizard]

I just took joy in squashing a white fly!

Blimey! Any buddhists on?

Let's be frank here, although some people set rural life up as the ideal it's usually more polluting than city life because of all the transport involved. Being SS obviously involves trying to cut down on that, but I still reckon urban life is less damaging emissions-wise.

[Boots]

Are you serious?

You been drinking or what?



...I am absolutely certain that townies fart much more than country folk....

[hedgewizard]

Anyone else heard that, or better yet got some stats? Andy?

[Mandyz]

Rural or urban...

I guess it depends how you live in the rural world :) If you live like an urbanite, then I guess you pollute more with all the commuting (to work and such).

But then, I know many urbanites who commute and drive everywhere. I live near the GTO (Greater Toronto Area). Downtown TO is about 90 - 120 minutes from my place with no traffic (ha ha - that only happens if you travel at midnight). My area is known as a "suburb" of Toronto - that means there are people that drive about 6 hours everyday to and from work! (3 hours each way with traffic is my guess) That's f'n crazy, but it is much cheaper to buy a house here than near TO. And even here is expensive compared to say Winnipeg or St. John's (the only two examples I know personally).
I also know urbanites who bike everywhere.

The transit systems in North America are pathetic. Not like in Europe at all. I was amazed by the transit systems in Germany this summer.

As for that white fly - it was a mercy killing to save my plants. That's gotta balance out the karma ;)
I'm less worried about what the Buddhists might say than I am about the Jains.
If I could just toss 'em out, like I do with the other bugs, I would, but white flies are kinda hard to move. I'm not even sure how they ever arrived, though I must assume one of my impulse grocery-store plants is the source.

[Verminda Spirit]

Being a pagan, the spiritual significance of my garden to me should be fairly obvious. I was wondering though, does anyone else feel closer to the divine when they are in their garden?

Most defiantly HW, my garden becomes my temple in the summer, this is where i spend all my waking time, pottering around and being with one with nature....Those that already know me, know that i call myself a child of nature; its here that i meditate and get most of my divine inspiratons.....

Its within my garden that i do my blessings and any magical work...Like yourself i feel the sway of the trees, i become the tree, the song of the blackbird, fills me with so much joy.....

As a follower of a nature based spiritality that goes back to the begining of time, i would be lost without my garden, trapped like a fish in a bowl...

Without Mother Nature we cease to exist.....

(my spell check wont work, so i apoligse for spelling mistakes ...)

Blessings, Verminda...

[Goodlife1970]

Right hands up Im lost! Can someone please explain to me what a Pagan does/believes in? And where does the Witch part come into it? Is it necessary to be a Witch in order to be a Pagan (or vice versa?) I thought Witches were Wiccan? In as much as the modern Christian festivals are dated,then surely by celebrating Christmas,Easter ect then we are ALL Pagans? Ive met people who claim to be Pagans but when Ive asked what their beliefs are they say things like "to be at one with the Earth" but a lot of religions have this as a fundemental belief (Native Americans?) Im sorry if this has made me look uneducated but in order for me to feel empathic (and I suppose to form an opinion) I need to clarify this. Thanks!

[hedgewizard]

Hey, goodlife, you've just summed it all up! To be a pagan is to be totally confused in a hippy sort of way.

There's no good definition of paganism because it's a blanket term. Pagans come in different flavours. It used to be the case that witchcraft and wicca were counted as the same thing, but there are those who argue the toss now. But yes, wicca is a sort of subset of paganism - but paganism encompasses a huge number of other systems like druidry, asatru, heathenism, and so forth. Wicca itself divides into loads of different flavours, such as Northern, Seax Wicca, Alexandrian, Gardnerian... and so on. Getting too much into all the labels is kind of dull and not all that meaningful, in the same way that getting too into the labels for different flavours of christanity is. By the way, the festivals in christianity (as we think of it in the west, anyway) tend to co-incide with old pagan festivals in Europe because the church was very clever in how it integrated itself into cultures as it spread.

Pagans see divinity as reflected in nature, so they mostly split the divine into male and female aspects, the God and Goddess (or many of each) but with the understanding that these are only aspects of the single creating force. There is usually a concept that we are all part of and indivisible from nature, and there's the idea of karma (although we don't normally use that word).

I've recently left the Pagan Federation because they've talked themselves into a corner by being so inclusive now that their definitions have become largely meaningless... but if you want there's some general information on paganism here. I can really only speak for myself; I was trained in Alexandrian wicca but have evolved a bit personally since then. If there's anything in particular you want to know, just ask!

[Millymollymandy]

It's all gibberish to me. I feel great in my garden (particularly after it has rained) and it's got bugger all to do with religion or witches!

[Mandyz]

Hey, goodlife, you've just summed it all up! To be a pagan is to be totally confused in a hippy sort of way.

LOL, it's so true. I totally hate having to discuss this issue in class, but of course students have questions. As soon as one group (academic or practitioner) tries to define Paganism, Wicca, Witchcraft and so forth, someone else has to expand it to include everyone! It's as bad as trying to find a definition of religion that people can agree upon!!

Needless to say, there are some Witches/Wiccans and self-identified Pagans who are less concerned with nature/the earth than they are with self-aggrandizement.

I was just reminded of this fact. A local Pagan community leader (in so far as she organizes the vast majority of open community events) yesterday started an online discussion asking "what is our environmental imperative?" framed in the context of Pagans are frequently described as earth-based religionists and her recent reading that compared this with ceremonial magic (often also included in the blanket term Pagan) that is not earth-based. She proceeded to ask if we all need to be "die-hard environmentalists" or "commune living, organic food growing, wind farming, hemp producing hippies".

Well this got to me, because it once again reminded me that so many Pagans do not practice what they claim to believe in. I replied immediately, as did another friend. (Notably noone else did and new topics were raised instead) My reply is not likely to win me friends because I was honest in my statement that I fully think that all mature Pagans should be walking the talk (and that others may be on the learning curve), and that the mature Pagans I do know are doing this. I was also clear about all the simple ways I "walk" - from not using disposable products, to composting and purchasing ecologically responsible products. I note in my friend's reply that she discussed some of the things she does, but also tried to soften her message stating she doesn't want to judge others, that maybe if they just plant a tree once a year, that's sufficient, and that we shouldn't beat ourselves up thinking we don't do enough.
She's a sweet girl, but I totally disagree. I don't think you have to beat yourself up. I think you just have to do it. Too often people focus on the supposed impossibilities of making a difference instead of learning and implementing the simple solutions.
Even without growing your own food (and I was quick to challenge the stereotype of self-sufficient people being all "hippies", for one it totally ignores religious communes and is utterly loaded with both romantic and dismissive notions which then belittle self-sufficent living and make such things seem unattainable for the average person) it does not require much sacrifice to simply be environmentally savvy and aware and make the little changes in your life that make a huge difference.

I was also annoyed by the phrase "die-hard environmentalist" which was used in a negative sense (we don't have to be) and is a common view I encounter that assumes environmentalists are extremist, that devoting your life to the preservation of our planet is a bad thing. I am disgusted by the negativity of such assumptions. If you want to describe the intenisve efforts of heavily involved enviro people, then perhaps "dedicated environmentalist" is the term sought. I would not count myself among those persons who are active in the environmental movement. I've never joined Green Peace (though I did pay for my sister to become a member as a Yule gift, because that is her area of interest) or done the things associated with environmentalists. Nevertheless, I am an environmentally-minded person who is aware of the footprints I and others leave and who strives to reduce my negative impacts on this planet.
I was environmentally-minded long before I identified as a Pagan, but nevertheless, the two are now intertwined for me. And I can not condone the excuses of any self-professed nature-religionist who is not environmentally-minded.

Pardon my rant. I'll step down now. This is an important issue for me, so I do get worked up when I consistently encounter pathetic excuses and ridiculous pussy-footing around these issues for fear of offending someone. Damn it, if we are supposed to love the earth so much, let's stop pussy footing, let's set down clear expectations, and not continue to support laziness.
(Local open circles always have potlucks, but only myself and another couple ever bring reusable plates. I've even brought extras to share, and most prefer to use the paper or styrofoam plates provided! This wouldn't happen at Reclaiming circles, but is always the case at the open "pan-Pagan" circles I attend.
Reclaiming is a feminist, activist, environmentalist, humanist Pagan tradition. And while some groups are more laid back, the expectations of the movement itself are clear.)

Okay okay, I'm going to walk the dog before this thunderstorm hits.