Selfsufficientish.com

My father went AWOL when I was very small. I certainly did not miss out on leadership skills or discipline - or the softer, emotional bits. I really don't think I missed out on anything except his presence as another parent - both on an emotional and, as far as my mother was concerned, financial basis. Times weren't exactly easy for a single parent in the early 50s. I've recently discovered my half-sister (although I don't use the "half" bit of the term) who was whipped off to Western Australia for her sins (she's back here now). She tells me that he wasn't exactly a disciplinarian. But he was her father. After she was whipped off, my mother eventually met and married a wonderful guy - my stepfather - who taught me his values and outlook, but only occasionally had he to discipline me because the hard work had already been done by the soft, emotional, non-disciplinarian woman who was my mother ... because she had to, because she understood, because she'd been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Whatever happened betweeen my parents is probably beyond knowing, but as far as I'm concerned, they got a few pretty wonderful, well-adjusted kids between them, doing what either of them had to do in the emotional and disciplinarian fields along the way.

Now there's a tumbled and twisted story. But I can't really see a male/female role problem in it anywhere.

Annpan wrote:
I DO find it offensive to both men and women to say that men are the strong ones, and children love their mothers more, OK I am paraphrasing here, but still, it is utter rubbish

YES, thank you!

Men and women are different. Have you ever wondered why? In my family, child-rearing was female based in every example. Maybe it is a generation thing. In my generation some of the women have careers, so that is a difference, from my parent's one. But even here the majority follow the familiar pattern.

The only reason there are more mums staying at home to look after kids is because men generally earn more money than women! If the woman is the higher earner then quite naturally the man will be the one to give up his job and rear the kids (unless they both have to work of course). It helps of course in this situation if one partner earns considerably more than the other!

Anyway, as a child of a single parent family (from age 6) my mum had to be both father and mother to my brother and me.

Which meant we got serious discipline compared to our friends who had 2 parents at home.

Millymollymandy wrote:The only reason there are more mums staying at home to look after kids is because men generally earn more money than women! If the woman is the higher earner then quite naturally the man will be the one to give up his job and rear the kids (unless they both have to work of course). It helps of course in this situation if one partner earns considerably more than the other!

Or because six months paid maternity leave versus a few weeks unpaid paternity leave is a financial no-brainer for most families if the couple are earning similar incomes.

Or because for many women, working in during pregnancy is not possible, not practicle, or just downright painful... I was signed off sick for 4 months before my mat. leave started.

I was also brought up in a single parent family, but my older siblings did much of the child rearing.

If OHwas as multi talented as my good self or if I could hope to earn as much as he does, or if I could commute, we'd happily change places.

Hiya Annpan,

I hope I didn't offend anyone, I could see this was getting heated, it really is a sore point, to many!

I do think "Family" (or rather lack of it) is a huge part of the problem in todays society.

Xe
xXx

Cherry_blossom wrote:...

I do think "Family" (or rather lack of it) is a huge part of the problem in todays society.

Xe
xXx

Ain't that the truth...

i choose 'i work from home' and if people ask further they get the full monty, because i am not 'just' a 'wife' not just a 'mum' not just a 'housewife' i am also a 'procurment agent' a 'chef' a 'childcare expert' an 'accountant' a 'teacher' a 'gardener' an 'engineer' a 'driver' etc etc etc etc I AM MORE, I AM EVERYTHING to this family and i refuse to be belittled as just a housewife

My mum was also both parents to us on a day-to-day basis, though dad was around at times (and is more now). This has taught me, if anything, to be more practical... I can chop wood, mend fences as well as knit, sew and paint my nails

I do think that different parents can offer kids different things, but that is because they are different people, not because of their gender. But personality does draw from perceptions about one's own gender, and it is a shame that valourisation (is that an English word?) of the different tasks has been skewed over time.

As for myself, I am working towards being able to have a home (rented or otherwise) and an eco-friendly, SSish lifestyle for myself because I draw pleasure from it. I hope that this means I can work part-time or from home, keep pets and grow veg as well as mending and make do, but what life will offer me time will tell. And if I meet someone special enough to share all of that with then it would be lovely to do so. But I do think that maybe you are right that it isn't possible to have a 100% self-sufficient family without one person at home full-time, just because of the sheer quantity of tasks to do to support a family.

I think my mother enjoyed it being full time home, green mother /chef /housewife /gardener and all the rest. Trouble is that I thought that working for money was just as rewarding.

I'm no longer sure having done both.

(please excuse terrible grammar...baby asleep in my arms!)

i think this is a really interesting and important discussion. my opinion is that men and women are different, but that doesnt mean that men cannot have a lesser role in bringing up children than women. men are just as capable as women in all areas of child rearing, and this includes the emotional side. i am a wanna-be stay at home mum; i do 10 hours a week evening work as a home carer (OH has ollie) but i dont want to...i want to be a full time SAHM. my OH has applied for the police and if he gets in i will quit my job,my most important job is at home with my family. my OH is the bread winner, but does loads with ollie....baths him, plays with him, puts him to bed, nappies, cooks....the only thing he doesn do is breastfeed!!

ollie loves his daddy, but i have to say that we have a special relationship that ollie and daddy cant have....and that is the nursing relationship. ollie comes to me for cuddles and milk, and to daddy for fun and games (noone can make him laught like daddy can!)

barefootlinzi wrote: i think this is a really interesting and important discussion. my opinion is that men and women are different, but that doesnt mean that men cannot have a lesser role in bringing up children than women. men are just as capable as women in all areas of child rearing, and this includes the emotional side. i am a wanna-be stay at home mum; i do 10 hours a week evening work as a home carer (OH has ollie) but i dont want to...i want to be a full time SAHM. my OH has applied for the police and if he gets in i will quit my job,my most important job is at home with my family. my OH is the bread winner, but does loads with ollie....baths him, plays with him, puts him to bed, nappies, cooks....the only thing he doesn do is breastfeed!!

This really strikes a chord with me - I feel the same. I don't have children yet, but certainly want to be at home with them when I do. I can't imagine anything more important or special! Well done to all you great mums!

Millymollymandy wrote:The only reason there are more mums staying at home to look after kids is because men generally earn more money than women! If the woman is the higher earner then quite naturally the man will be the one to give up his job and rear the kids (unless they both have to work of course). It helps of course in this situation if one partner earns considerably more than the other!

Anyway, as a child of a single parent family (from age 6) my mum had to be both father and mother to my brother and me.

Which meant we got serious discipline compared to our friends who had 2 parents at home.

Well I damaged my back in 1987 and when we had our son in 1989 i'd been out of work 2 years. My wife had the best prospects of being employed so I became the "househusband" After all how hard can this housework be if women can do it and still go to the bingo??

After 3 weeks I was pleading to be able to go to work, a proper mans job like construction of shipbuilding etc but no I got the short straw and 21 years on my wife is still "doing the day job" I and I do the rest.....I know who got the easier of the two but she won't give it up, lol.

Fizzy Izzy wrote:

barefootlinzi wrote: i think this is a really interesting and important discussion. my opinion is that men and women are different, but that doesnt mean that men cannot have a lesser role in bringing up children than women. men are just as capable as women in all areas of child rearing, and this includes the emotional side. i am a wanna-be stay at home mum; i do 10 hours a week evening work as a home carer (OH has ollie) but i dont want to...i want to be a full time SAHM. my OH has applied for the police and if he gets in i will quit my job,my most important job is at home with my family. my OH is the bread winner, but does loads with ollie....baths him, plays with him, puts him to bed, nappies, cooks....the only thing he doesn do is breastfeed!!

This really strikes a chord with me - I feel the same. I don't have children yet, but certainly want to be at home with them when I do. I can't imagine anything more important or special! Well done to all you great mums!

and SAHD's (stay at home dads)