The Education System

[Lilyfae]

Old jerry sorry if I sound idealistic, currently this is only in a few classrooms including mine and I don't deny that the current education system as a whole is flawed

Pelmetman you say academics value education over intelligence, I would say that might be true for those who have achieved a BA but I wouldn't call them academics just graduates, really it's the Government that values educational qualifications over intelligence and is pushing this in the schools out of international shame rather than interest in their children (so much for every Child matters!) - The UK was publically embarassed a number of years ago when it was pointed out we were 42nd in the developed world for education (read qualified population as that's how they test it)

Since then the Gov has pushed qualifications qualifications qualifications (can you tell who it is yet- in bad attempt at Aussie accent!) and the reason why the kids who can't get GCSE History/Drama/Art/French etc are shoved into computer rooms and get qualifications designed for illiterate adults & adults with special needs (again to lift the qualified population) which are worth 2 GCSEs to show ooh they left school with 6 passes in English, Maths, adult literacy & Vision to learn ( aka don't eat junk food & don't stick forks in plug sockets- I kid you not) This as a teacher I find a disgrace just to fiddle the statistics of GCSE results for a school/ country and is why the new English Baccalaureate ( sorry no accents on iPhone) has been introduced to ensure that kids aren't fobbed off with Qualifications that employers wont recognise!

However you are right to a degree as non-academic kids are taught somewhat that labour intensive jobs whether it be plumber/electrician/brickie/chippy/gardener/farmer etc are somehow beneath them & they should aspire for an office based job you get with qualifications- that I think is a major & debilitating flaw in our society and thus education system.

However from the point of interests of the parents on here, a flawed and corrupt system for 14-19 does not mean that teaching below that age is or should be bad, rushed or lacking in rigour, yet there are many schools and teachers who currently mask the efforts & achievements of many great teachers leading quiet revolutions behind their classroom doors.

I admit I probably come across as 'green' and idealistic but I know there are major flaws in education and many bad teachers, but if I don't try, I won't inspire others to change or in the case of the PGCE training I have given , inspire to get it right from the start?
And I think you might want to know there are some of us out there!

[Susie]

I agree with Zech and Lilyfae ^^.

However you are right to a degree as non-academic kids are taught somewhat that labour intensive jobs whether it be plumber/electrician/brickie/chippy/gardener/farmer etc are somehow beneath them & they should aspire for an office based job you get with qualifications- that I think is a major & debilitating flaw in our society and thus education system.

I think there are a lot of office-based white-collar non-jobs which have generated themselves for the purpose. I once started an MBA and it seemed to me that, while the other students + the tutor were all nice people, the whole management studies industry was a non-subject giving validation to a whole swathe of non-jobs. I've managed organisations and I know it's not a complete no-brainer and you might want a bit of a strategy, but it seemed to me the entire management studies thing could be entirely replaced by having someone in management who knew what they were talking about and had experience of (and was good at) the thing they were managing.

Aaaaand hoping I haven't offended any management studies ishers, happy to be told why I'm wrong.

++ lol @ OJ .

[pelmetman]

Pelmetman you say academics value education over intelligence, I would say that might be true for those who have achieved a BA but I wouldn't call them academics just graduates, really it's the Government that values educational qualifications over intelligence and is pushing this in the schools out of international shame rather than interest in their children (so much for every Child matters!) - The UK was publically embarassed a number of years ago when it was pointed out we were 42nd in the developed world for education (read qualified population as that's how they test it)

Your right that its the goverment that has pushed the "Education, Education, Education" message, but I suspect that the universities are behind the push ..................Academics love an empire......eg: Oxford, Cambridge

Do we really need more non jobs staffed by over educated paper pushers ...Seems to me this country needs people who can actually produce stuff.........not just talk about it

[Zech]

Academics love an empire......eg: Oxford, Cambridge

True, but the empire they crave consists of an army of research minions doing all their research for them (i.e. the hard slog of testing things, when they've done the fun bit of coming up with the brilliant ideas), invitations to conferences, and honorary posts at prestigious institutions. Students don't enter into it. Ambitious academics would rather not teach at all, given the choice.

Excuse the characature. They're not all like that, I promise!

[oldfella]

My schooling was from 1939 to 1948, and my teachers were old folk,retired teachers, and after being bombed out four times, ended up in an orphanage, at the age of 8. The only class I learnt any thing of value was in the wood work- class , and to this day maths, history, verbs, punctuation, and so on are a mystery to me. With regards to maths, my teacher during my last year was a 70 yr old Lady who took delight in singing snatches of Gilbert and Sullivan, to us instead of Sums.
However I learnt, over the years ways around my problem, and worked my way up to managerial level, and although I had worked for the company from its start-up, I was replaced by a young graduate, with no experience, but had a degree.
I remember a young officer during an operation being asked by a another officer " who was leading the operation" to which he replied," the Corporal, he's done it all before, I've only read the book"
My point is, that we are all of equal value, some go one way , some go one another, but at the end of the day whether you have a Doctorate behind your name, or just a plain Mr/Mrs we end up in a box,

in my case a cardboard box.

[boboff]

Love the Poem.

Wow, Don't some of you feel sorry for yourselves, bemoaning the fact that you were failed due to your "vocational" tallents, ah, poor chaps.

Doing a degree is a choice, in general a degree is an indicator of ability, and has nothing what so ever to do with content.

Without a degree, in a job of work an able person will soon rise on ability and merit and not as a result of any qualification.

Hard work, dedication, flexibility, creativity, team work etc are all rewarded eventually in most small and medium sized businesses.

Far to often people bemoaning the system I think are just bitter because they haven't got on very well because they are crap.

Personally I think the following as well.

1. You tell tell more about an employeee by there out of work activities than from their qualifications.
2. I would always prefer to employ someone who wrote unsolicited for a Job, than someone whose been told by the Job centre to answer an advert.


Oh and Mike, I would just stick to 2010 paper!

[JulieSherris]

And so the door opened & a firework was thrown in......... ::raised eyebrow smiley::

[chickenchargrill]

A degree might be a choice, but once you get to A-levels it is an expected choice. What's the point of doing A-levels without continuing to Uni? I wouldn't have said it was treated as a choice when I was at 6th Form.

[oldjerry]

And so the door opened & a firework was thrown in......... ::raised eyebrow smiley::

Sounds like my sort of school ...!

[boboff]

A degree might be a choice, but once you get to A-levels it is an expected choice. What's the point of doing A-levels without continuing to Uni? I wouldn't have said it was treated as a choice when I was at 6th Form.

Well you did ask.....

In my particular case I needed A levels to join the RAF. I went for a sixth form scholarship and after all the tests for the role I wanted of Navigator in a Jet, the Officer who was impressed with my IQ and leadership, suggested that I might be better suited to ADMINISTRATION!

So I was living independantly, as my parents had moved, and at 17 I needed to finish my A-levels, and start earning money. So getting the A - Z of careers in hand I decided on accountancy, you needed A-levels to start the Certified course, and this could be done in block release. It is considered as a "degree" but I worked to survive, bought a house and got married whilst still studying. During those 5 years of studying I also did the accounts for 100's of business and audited 100's of small business, though a recession and a period of growth. So I do feel A Levels are useful for a number of reasons without the need for a normal degree, and that I feel a work based qualification can give you a huge advantage over a degree holder as you have alot more experience early on.

Still I always think I am glad I never stared at the back of that book or I would have ended up Mucking out Elephants!

[pelmetman]

Wow, Don't some of you feel sorry for yourselves, bemoaning the fact that you were failed due to your "vocational" tallents, ah, poor chaps.

Far to often people bemoaning the system I think are just bitter because they haven't got on very well because they are crap.

As for bemoaning the system, I was pointing out that the education industry only serves those who can remember crap ..............and ignores in my view.... the more talented......but more than that they try to instil the thought in kids who do not suceed in exams, that they will never suceed and will be doomed to be a no-hoper............that was certainly the impression my teachers tried on me

Have I made a success of my life inspite of my teachers ............I semi retired at 7 years ago at 46........I try to only earn sufficent.........which means I have done barely 200 hours work this year

Well must go ....got to go to back to work today....in the workshop in my garden....first days work in 5 weeks .....................................YES MY TEACHERS WERE RIGHT............................

I'm a lazy B*******D

[chickenchargrill]

That was showing more what people's attitude were when I was at 6th Form than actually asking. Can't say I've ever seen a job asking for a min of x at A-level though.

But that can't be true for all RAF roles. Minimum age for joining as an Airman is 15 years and 9 months. Although, I know someone who joined post A-levels and then they helped him get his degree whilst with them.

As for a work-based qualification. They're great as long as you know what job you want to do and can get that job at the end of it. Otherwise it's back to the drawing board. (That one I might be a little bitter about as I spent 3 years at uni to get a qualification which means virtually nothing now. And the OH spent a year getting a teaching qualification he can't use. They're more the government's fault than the educational system.)

[boboff]

Dave, I think in a way that you schooled to early! The current system of GCSE's is very much more biased towards the "workers" rather than the "revisers" in that much is cource work, much is "open book" and less of an emphasis is placed on "memory"

The roles I wanted in the RAF were officer roles, and as such they did dicatate a min A-Level requirement at the time, still it was 1988 so may have changed now.

As you say though, it makes no difference in the end.

I "retired" at 36, and although I still can't leave off the perenthisis (sp Julie?) When people ask when I am going back to work I get nervous! As for me I think I am on 12 hours paid work this year, and I envy your shed time. The most valuable lesson though is the one about doing what you want, being happy, and that family is really the most important thing in the world!

[pelmetman]

I do not think that I was schooled too early Bob, but schooled during a time when politicans were meddling in the education system..............No change there then?

For example in my final few years at school they decided to change from a boys school to a comprehensive, which naturally meant a certain amount of disruption .........So for some reason they decided to group all the no-hopers together in one class which of course I was in ...... Our class was treated different to the rest of the school in so far as the normal curriculum was concerned ....Not that it mattered as we were hardly ever there as we all seemed to be truant most of the time, which did not seem to be a problem to the school as it meant we were out of their way ...............When the school finally opened as a shiney new comprehensive and everyone had their new uniforms, except us we were told that we didn't need new uniforms..........I guess the school didn't want to be associated with the likes of us

Although I should add that one of our teachers did get us sent to the local technical college for a year to try different subjects like plumbing, bricklaying, car mechanics etc and I loved it .........are there any technical colleges left or are they still the poor relation to universities?
Well I say a year ..... it was meant to be a year but only lasted a few months I dare say some academic thought there was no point wasting money on the thick kids

When I left at 16 I joined the Navy .......It was during basic training that I discovered I wasn't as thick as my teachers would have me believe, as I can top out of 3 divisions of recruits and won a silver bosuns call .........I don't know who was more shocked me or the Navy ...but interestingly if I had had O levels, then I would of been slip streamed to become an officer..............now thats a giggle ..me as an officer

Not made it to work yet ....what with walking the dog then coffee and now replying to this thread, its "Bargain Hunt" soon so sod it I'll start after lunch

[boboff]

Love it!

You obviously took the course of smiley insertion!

I went to an all boys Technical Grammar school for 4 years, and its now a housing Estate! Piggy the metal work Teacher was fantastic, I especially remember the Enameling lessons! Charles Dance went to the school too!

What times loose women on?