Cluckin' butchers!

[Milims]

I called at what is considered the best butcher in town today. I asked if he did free range chicken. His answer was that he could get them but the barn chickens in the chiller were just as good and cheaper - just over £3 per kilo as opposed to just over £5 per kilo - and in his opinion it just wasn't worth it and he wouldn't pay the difference! I simply answered that I preferred to have free range and he looked at my like it was some kind of idiot! Tell me - who is the idiot someone who wants to eat less cruel better quality food and is prepared to pay for it or the idiot who turns them away?

[Jobi1canobi]

Why does everything have to be about money and spending less of it these days - there are other reasons for doing things and just because it might be slightly more expensive doesn't make it wrong...

[Ratty]

I'm with you both there! OH eats meat but has taken the decision to only eat free-range organic locally produced because he is concerned about world hunger and he doesn't want the meat he is eating to be at the expense of those in the Third World. But try explaining that to any butcher?! OH would much much rather pay a lot once in a while for a really lovely piece of meat rather than getting loads of it cheap all the time. There is no real quality in fast grown, intensively farmed meat anyhow.

I'm sticking with smoked tofu myself

[Clara]

So agree with what has been said above, and also you may have come across a phenomena that really riles me. I hate it when shopkeepers of any ilk aways have a "justification" for not stocking something or flatly refusing to entertain the notion of doing something differently. My local health food store (English run) does it and it winds me up chronic. I have worked in shops in the past and I would never dismiss a customer in that way, not if I wanted them to come back. A simple, "I´ll look into it and let you know if its doable" would have been a far better answer. Smacks of "you´re just a stupid customer and I´m the expert" attitude Its just shopping get over yourself matey!

[Shirley]

I've not been in and asked recently, but before free range became more widely available I asked for one at my butchers... I was told that they were not worth the extra money and, because they were free range that meant that they were able to scratch about anywhere and eat anything which meant that the meat could be tainted with an undesirable taste! I sense a trip to my butchers for an update.

Last time I was in there I was looking at the sausages and noticed that they had colour and msg in the ingredients. I asked whether he could get them without and was told no because the cereal mix they use contains it and looked at me like I had two heads when I questioned him. The regulars like the sausages to look good and they won't taste so good without the msg! Hmmmmmmmmmm - haven't been back since and we buy our sausages from a small producer... guess what, they are delicious and contain NO msg or colouring.

[cybach]

:tongue2: couldnt agree more I have given up mostly using butchers they are not what they used to be (the customer is always right) I found local farmers who sell direct to public and it does make a nice day out any excuse not to work some will even deliver as my friendly farmer did yesterday with my lovely free range pork and it is cheaper than the butchers

[Thurston Garden]

Milims - it's maybe a bit far north for you, but if you are passing Norham, call in to David Foreman's shop. You will be salivating!

http://www.borderbutcher.co.uk/

[DominicJ]

Why do you assume free range is better than barn?
I realise when someone says free range you think Eglu in the garden, but the reality is quite different.
Chickens DONT range very far

[Milims]

Why do you assume free range is better than barn?
I realise when someone says free range you think Eglu in the garden, but the reality is quite different.
Chickens DONT range very far

The reason I prefer free range chicken to barn fed chicken is because the barn fed hasn't had the opportunity to range completely freely and therefore what it's fed turns more to fat. A free range chicken has had the oppotunity to roam freely and therefore more exercise means less fat build up and the opportunity to develop more of the omega 3s. I'd rather pay for something that is less fat and water and more nutrients. This added to the fact that free range is better regulated than the majority of other methods of production (unless you are talking organic) is to me an altogether better idea.

[Milims]

Milims - it's maybe a bit far north for you, but if you are passing Norham, call in to David Foreman's shop. You will be salivating!

http://www.borderbutcher.co.uk/

Just had a look at the web site - drool! We have decided to have a day trip in that direction this week. We want to go to the green shop in Wooler so we can combine the two and perhaps head to Berwick to drown the children - erm sorry I mean take the children swimming!

[Thurston Garden]

Yep you will drool when you get there too!

As regards Barn v's Free Range - imo (and those of a few commercial poultry people I know) Barn is a marketing term only. How to hoodwink the public!

[Milims]

Couldn't agree more! It seems to me that although they aren't in cages and can't move they are crammed in great numbers into a barn and have about the same space and freedom!
Having eaten both I can honestly say that there is a difference - the free range is less watery, less fat comes off it when cooking, it's tastier and because it's meattier you need to eat less of it in order to feel like you've had some! When you look at it like that I'd rather pay a couple of extra quid per kilo knowing that I'm actually getting what I'm paying for as well as knowing that the chicken on my plate has had a pretty good life.

[DominicJ]

Most free range chicken farms I've ever seen are essentialy barn chickens where the doors are opened during the day.
The chickens dont suddenly spread out over a vast area, even though that open space is provided, on a per chicken basis.
So 10,000 chickens will get 10,000 square metres of space, but because they dont want to travel far from the barn where they roost, they only use 3000 square metres.

The practical difference is pretty minor, unless the chickens are housed in much smaller coops, like 20 birds. You'd only know that if you went to the farm to buy it.

Just because something sayrs free range or organic, doesnt mean its any good.
Dont bite my head off, just trying to help.

[Thurston Garden]

I think that both terms Free Range and Organic are actually pretty good indicators of animal welfare: they both have stringent standards of stocking rates/husbandry etc. Barn is a more loosely defined term and of course, the word Barn and a picture of a healthy bird outside give the consumer a warm glow lol Exactly what it is intended to do. Sadly though the pressure from supermarkets to reduce, particularly Organic standards is eroding the whole principle. Only one thing counts with the big boys: profit.

One way of differentiating between Free Range and Barn is to think of Free Range as birds who are kept outdoors but have access to inside. Barn being birds kept inside who have the ability to go outside - sadly in reality, they seldom do.

[ina]

Most free range chicken farms I've ever seen are essentialy barn chickens where the doors are opened during the day.
The chickens dont suddenly spread out over a vast area, even though that open space is provided, on a per chicken basis.
So 10,000 chickens will get 10,000 square metres of space, but because they dont want to travel far from the barn where they roost, they only use 3000 square metres.

I don't know about freerange, but in organic standards there are maximum numbers that can be kept in one house; so 10.000 in one just does not happen. I think (but am not sure - would have to look it up), 2.000 is the maximum for Soil Association.

I must admit that I think the standards aren't stringent enough; for example, I would love to see the provision of shelter (other than the house) included. Chickens are woodland birds, and they should have at least some shrubbery or small trees in the area. Sadly, that is rarely the case on larger farms (we have a large producer of organic table birds nearby). It's just too difficult to move the sheds on a regular basis when there are so many obstacles in the way.